Ok I watched the Video, I must say I am impressed, those cars have full exhaust and are running very well. I would guess that with a decent set of open headers they would easily pick up 3 tenths, maybe more.
Thanks for the info, when I see 10 second timeslips, I assume open headers, high stall, lots of gear, etc. These guys are on top of their game.
Thanks James for the inputs, and it is great to hear from a Mopar guy here with your comments. I believe all 3 participants did an awesome job. I only wish time was more on our side. I pulled an all nighter with Jim the Wednesday before the race sitting that beast into the frame with tranny attached, only to pull the tranny back out to realize we did have the flywheel on correctly and the darn high torque starter has an offset gear mechanism. Poor Jim was at his end, and I joke him that I had to give him the ole "pep" talk. We are both glad we marched on. I left at 5:30 AM to return at noon to finish up and loaded her on the trailer around 3 PM. Not an excuse, but just wish we had a chance to run before getting there to realize the changes needed. You commented on Daves weight of car. I read the article and did not see his weight, did I miss it? I know Jims weight and saw the Corvette was like 3200 lbs, but just do not remember seeing Daves in there. I know Buicks are heavy, and Jims car is definately full metal body, full interior and weighs like a Buick. Thanks for the great input... Mike
You know guys...one of my thoughts (not that too many of them mean that much...) is that IF Jim was going to knowingly cheat with the aluminum heads, he would have personally called Mike T. and special ordered the heads WITHOUT any of the extra head bolt bosses spot-faced and also would have made every attempt to make a visual-pleasing forgery of the factory iron heads. And there are ways to do that if one wants to spend the extra money to do so! :Brow: Do ANY of the nay-sayers honestly think that ANYONE involved with Jim's effort would have not brought this "oversight" to his attention? Come on, I can't be the only one who would think of something that visually obvious if blatant cheating were the intention..... Who among you do not think that that Dave D. and the other F.A.S.T. guys do not strap on their thinking caps tightly (as well as possibly having their very own little "think-tanks" :TU: ) to take advantage of every even-slightly gray area one could conceive of in the rules???o No: It's called "pushing the envelope" and it's how most advances are purposely made and not stumbled upon. :beer Disclaimer: The above statement was NOT said to put any F.A.S.T. participant down or to accuse of cheating.....remember F.A.S.T. is for Factory APPEARING Stock Tire. Anyway.... Hats off to you, your efforts and especially your car Jim! :bglasses:
Interesting post. However Jim had many opportunities to address the head issue when I brought it up on the Buick Performance board after the race. Go read his reply. He would not directly answer the implication of aluminum heads. All 3 guys knew this race was "F.A.S.T." on slicks. If you don't know what F.A.S.T. is, go read the rules. If Dudek ran with aluminum heads and got called on it, I can only imagine what some would be posting here! Yes the Buick camp was up against the clock. However a race is race. The Buick is a TOP DOG musclecar. No question about that! It just bothers me that people implie Dudek (from the Hemi camp) may have pushed the envelope a little to much (where no one has shown his attempt at cheating), yet Jims car gets a free pass (mistake or not). Sorry, but aluminum heads on the Buick just doesn't cut it for me. Patrick
This is what I like! We're all car guys. The brand rivalries make it fun but that's where it should end. Its all about having fun with the cars we love. :TU:
Patrick, To address your concerns. I raced Dave Dudek in the shootout, for HR Magazine. I addressed the cylinder head issue with HR for the article because I have nothing to hide. I would have addressed the issue directly with Dave had he asked, he did not. I felt no need to address the issue with Wayne, since we did not race eachother. I did not race you, and you were not involved in any way, so I did not feel I owed you any explanation. I hope you understand. Thanks, and Sincerely, Jim
And thanks to all who have posted compliments on the car and on our efforts. I am a true blue Buick guy at heart, and have been for 25 years. You guys appreciation means a lot more than you know, especially considering we did not win the shootout. Do not listen to the nay sayers. I owe thanks to so many people for help with the car I dont know where to begin. Mike Littlejohn Wildcat Performance, Mike Laciura TA Performance, Mike Tomazewski Richard Lasseter and the GSCA Then and Now Restorations, Mark Reeves AMP, Mike Phillips The Buick Performance Group Gary Laughlin (Driver), Brian Liggett, Perry Carlini Greg Gessler (BTW the heads werent his idea! :laugh: ) Val Hedworth Charlie Evans Rob Kinnan, Hot Rod Craig at Coan Transmission and Converters Tom and Bill at Champion Racing Heads Jack Barfield with B and C PowerHouse I prolly overlooked someone somewhere. ou: But they know I mean it.
I think the one thing for sure that everyone has at these events is CLASS. Regardless of what kind of American musclecar we own,love or cherish,we are all driven to the same passion for this hobby. All you guys do a great job and have classy cars to boot(while going extremely fast).
You know something Jim-everybody that was involved with your car did a fine job and your car ran extremely well. I can imagine how much quicker your car will be with more time. You have just hit the tip of the iceberg and your car will be much quicker for sure. How much total time has the engine been run? That in itself will make a noticeable difference since the engine really hasn't broken in yet. Just those wheelstands alone show the monsterous power that your car produces. If you get those wheelstands down a little,you will be even quicker.
Thanks Mike, I don't know if the weight was in the article, as I have not read it yet. I got the info from Dave Dudek on the Moparts site, here's his quote: "Driver is 195lbs so the car weights 3530lbs with about 3 gallons of gas when weighted. Add 100lbs with full tank of fuel... Here`s a picture of the RR on my last pass against the Vette. A guy who was attending Drag Week sent me some black n white shots of the car with about 3"/4" more inches of air under the tires. I would have loved to seen those in the mag.."
As far as the Hemi being legal, here is a couple of quotes from the guys who helped build the car: "OK, now I want to clear up some stuff about what is being said on the Buick Board. First, this IS a new car for Dave. This car had been to the track about 5 times prior to this race. All but 1 had been on the stock tires. His one abreviated test session with the slicks showed him some of the cars shortcomings, and the changes made going into the shootout were untested. More important in my opinion, are the subtle (or not so subtle ) insinuations that Daves car would not pass F.A.S.T. Tech. Dave and I work very closley on this stuff. We talk almost everyday, we share all of our info, we are a team, trying to put Hemi Mopars in front. I know Daves car almost as good as I know my own, and I know Daves attitude toward the rules. He wants to win, and he dosen't want ANYTHING to ever come up that could possibly tarnish his accomplishments. The car is 100% F.A.S.T. legal. The heads, the block, the manifolds, everything. Dave was so anal about making sure that his car was beyond reproach for this shootout, he asked me to go over it with a fine tooth comb and let him know of anything that I thought was even remotely questionable. There was nothing wrong. Congrats again to all the competitors, you put on a heck of a show! " And another: "For those who even care..... lol we spent two weeks prior to the shoot out preparing the car for the Hot Rod race. Thats all time we had because of a smoked piston from the Mopar Nats we had to fix which was about one month before the actual shoot out. Also, the only trickery involved with this car was making an 800 HP hemi with factory cast block, heads, intake etc, etc and making it sound stock....... and WE DID IT! We would have torn down there or will tear down anytime in the future to prove it! BTW We ran a best of 10.27 @ 133.9 mph two days before the actual shootout at Norwalk. This year we will be even better......... " Here is a link to the actual thread: http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3141554&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
I been reading all this and figured I would chime in my $.02 on the subject. First off, hats off to both competitors. I think this rivalry is awesome and I think it shows that these muscle cars are not to be *%$@ed with. Both cars are awesome, but I really don't think getting beat by an 800hp Hemi is anything to lower your head about. Is this the race to "end the feud" once and for all? Hell no. We'll be back for next round. Will the Yankees knocking the Red Sox out of the playoffs end that rivarly? If the Bears sweep the Packers this time around will they quit? Are my beloved Buckeyes forever better than M*ch*g*n for beating them nearly every year since Tressel took over? Well... yes, but not for the other rivalries. Go Buckeyes. Anyways, back to what I was saying. None of the cars are stock, okay we all know that the faster you go, the better the Hemi is. Otherwise, NHRA top fuelers wouldn't still be using the design 30 or 40 some years later. We as Buick fans also know that Buick hasn't given a damn about going fast since the Gran National. (hats off, moment of silence please....ok) Example: Pontiac Excitement Nationals, Super Chevy Show, Mopar Performance Nationals, Ford...Whatever, and then the Buick Open. Buick Open?! Four races and then we have a golf tournament, I rest my case. The fact that in 2006, the Hemi vs. Stage 1 rivarly still burns strong is great for muscle car enthusiasts. The fact that our beloved 455 Stage 1 is the stingiest competition for a FACTORY RACE ENGINE/CAR out of all the other junk, mainly Chevy, is quite an accomplishment. I don't righteously give two $%its and a *&ck what Super Chevy, er I mean Hot Rod Magazine (sorry, I always get the two confused) says about it. Once again, hats off to both competitors and congratulations on having some badass cars that I assume are both street legal from the sound of it. :beer And by the way, if I pissed anybody off, then read the post to yourself again but only in a different tone of voice this time because I'm giving credit to both sides here. Unless you're a Chevy guy. In which case, eat *$it :laugh:
Dudeck may have been shallow staging, afterall he had us covered and could afford to go after a number. But, I also was staging shallow and going for a number. We had nothing to lose and a 10.90 something sure looks better than an 11.0 pass. As for Dave D. lighting both bulbs before I lit one, no big deal to me at all. I did the same thing to a fellow Buick racer a few years back. It did not effect me or the Buicks performance. As for Dave " not used to racing on slicks"....I had not even sat in Jims GS until the Saturday before the race. I had never raced a column shift car before. The GS was NEVER EVEN DRIVEN until 11pm Saturday night before the race. When Jim got to St. Louis late Friday afternoon September 8th, the car was nowhere near ready to make a pass. The exhaust system was in boxes, the front suspension was not finished, the slicks were still in boxes, and many more things needed finishing, all before I could even run up and down my street and get the feel of things. We all worked on the car from Friday evening till race time, not to mention what Jim and Mike Littlejohn went through just to get the car in the trailer just days before. Given more time, the Buick would have went quicker no doubt. Quick enough to beat the Hemi RR, who knows? 10.30s in F.A.S.T. trim is VERY stout. As for the RR being legal.........I'm sure it was. I don't think anybody from the Buick camp checked it out much. It was not far from us and had the hood open for anyone who wanted to look it over, I just didn't see many "prying eyes" checking it out. We were to busy with unfinished things to even worry about the other car. I'm not to sure if any of the Buick guys in attendance would have known what to look for anyway. I can really only speak for myself, and I wouldn't know what to look for at all. The GS, on the other hand had lots of onlookers the whole time. The attention it drew is exactly why us Buick guys are Buick guys. In all, it was a great time and I am glad I was allowed to be a part of it. Dave D and his dad are good people and great competitors. Their Hemi RR is truely an awesome car. Jims GS is, without a doubt, one of the finest examples I have ever seen, much less driven. :beer Here's to all muscle cars!
Hey Jim ....YOU ROCK !! :beer :TU: Thanks for putting the word BUICK back in everyone's mouth - Could you imagine the commotion if you won ?? :rant: :rant: :rant: :laugh:
I'll drink to that! On a sidenote Gary, what RPM were you shifting at? and what rpm did it go through at the end? I'm just curious as to how high you guys spin these things. Oh yeah, I still haven't read the article, how much gear is in it? Thanks.
What's the opinion then? With plenty of seat and tuning time, would the Buick be strong enough to take it to 3 races? Apparantely the Mopar crowd didn't have much time to tune the RR, but more time than the Buick I am sure. If the RR is truly capable of 9's, could this Buick ever challange it? We know the Buick is limited when being built for racing, so is it impossible to run with the Hemis in any other form other than stock?
