Has anyone read the February 07 issue of Hot Rod yet? There is a "Hemi verses Stage 1" article where the two cars race. Well the Hemi won. The cars were very nicely done in my opinion but the sentiment of the article was the fact that this race was the end all be all of the Hemi vs. Buick feud. Yeah right.... It is nice and all when they put a race like this together, but I don't think they needed to treat it like the matter is settled, sort of settled, or even midly settled between the mopar guys (who mostly seem a bit in denial about a Buick Stage 1) and us Buick folks. Pardon my language but I thought the whole article was a load of BS seeing as neither of the cars had a period factory stock drivetrain. Both cars were built extremely nicely and were modifiend 600+ horsepower cars which made it an extremely interesting match up. They give the background of the rivalry between Hemi cars and the Buick Stage 1 with the sentiment coming off very pro-Mopar, at least thats how it read to me anyways. The Buick was downplayed at every chance the author had. I have no problem with a Hemi vs Buick Stage 1 article, and I really don't have a huge problem if the Hemi wins if the cars are truly bone stock (though you all know who I cheer for). I just think it's a bummer when the outcome of 2 modified cars racing determines what others will think of this rivalry, especially when the article seemed to me to be kind of slanted to one side of this fun/interesting/heated rivalry. Any thoughts????
The Hemi won by what kind of margin? Did they go 2 out of 3? What kind of times did they turn? Bob H.
1st round : Hemi 10.39 Buick 11.09 2nd round: Hemi 10.38 Buick 10.98 The Buick driver was not "used to racing on slicks" and still improved his time. They raced the Roadrunner and the Stage 1 twice and then the Hemi raced a Corvette and beat that too. All told, 4 races. Hemi won all of them
I think the article represented both cars well. What surprised everyone was how well Jim Rodger's Stage 1 ran after lifting the front end on it's very first race pass,and everyone knew it was a contender. The author goes on to say that Jim Rodger's Stage 1 ran admirably well. Saying that, the author was definately impressed. I don't think that this rivalry has ended. The Hemi has a volumetric efficiency of roughly 1250 cfm,whereas the Buick only has 850 cfm(Rodger's equipped car). Naturally,the car with the most cfm will not get out of the gate soon enough,but once it gets going,those cfm's really make things happen very quickly. What would happen if a Bulldog block were substituted? Now how fast will the Buick be? Only time will tell.
Bob, Please tell us, with your infinite wisdom, how you came to that conclusion with the obvious very limited information you have on the car, the buildup, its owner, the race or the rules as they pertain to the aformentioned. Or are you just shooting from the hip again about things you know nothing about, as you are known so well to do? o No:
Ok Bobby, I'll bite. Do us all a favor first though. Prove your intelligence buy supplying us with YOUR personal and FIRST HAND information on the subject ie the car, the engine buildup, the race (you were there correct????) the rules as they pertain to the Cordova race, et al. Please note: Any information you gathered thru hearsay, rumor, the grapevine, or reckless posts by other people with knowlege as limited as yours is not permitted. We want your FIRST HAND, PERSONAL INFORMATION. We eagerly await!
I see you digging thru a bunch of random and misled old posts Robert. Dont force hearsay down our throats, we want your first hand facts. Dont give us something you read somewhere posted by someone who heard something from a guys brother whos best friend over heard his sisters boyfriend repeating a story about some black hemi racing some other car in a magazine shootout. Come on, spill it!
WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS ??????? You have been asked and have not answered. You want to point to the mopar thread. What would that ever tell us? Not a damn thing. The only thing that could be said about non stock was the fuel line and the alt. Everything else was BS, just like you are trying to feed here. :af: Now with this being said, you are no longer ignorant - as you have been educated... :Smarty: Additionally to the car and it's times. With all the respect in the world to Jim Rogers, his time restraints of car readiness hurt him quite a bit. He did not even put the motor in the car but 3 days before the race. He had not even ran the combo before showing up at the track until the day before the big race. Jim has a beautiful car that is top notch and I am sure he will eventually be dialing in times as low or lower than the hemi was running. The Educator (I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken...LOL)
Given those facts hopefully the Buick world will be given the chance to put up a car in a future race that has been put together long enough to work out the inevitable bugs found in a newly built race car and to work through the learning curve surrounding that particular car's best combination. Given the timing of assembly and the lack of that car's readiness was any thought given to finding a substitute for the race in question? That it would seem would have eliminated one of the issues now currently being debated.
Bob, I find it amusing that you are so vocal about my car and its buildup, yet we have never spoken, you have never seen my car in person, you know nothing of its buildup, and you were not in Cordova September 10. Seeing as how I have made no claims publically as to my cars buildup I have to wonder where you are getting your facts, because they certainly didnt come from the horses mouth. I have taken the criticism and bashing from guys like you in stride since September 10, but enough is enough. I only agreed to this race because no one else stepped up and I thought it would be a fun challenge to represent the cars I love so much and an opportunity to get my car in HR, which is a once in a lifetime opportunity. I'm sorry you were so turned off by my efforts. If you think you can do better, then you step to the plate next time. uzzled:
And lastly, my sincere congrats to Dave Dudek on his fine, fast and beautiful HEMI RoadRunner. It is truly an amazingly unbelieveable car and he has it sorted out to the nth degree. I would go to no end to know his "true" engine combination and the "true" weight of the car. But I'm not going to hold my breath. :laugh:
I followed the build of Jim's car with great interest. I've seen it in person and saw it run. What was done with that car and in the time frame he had was truly inspiring. After learning the whole story behind this endevor I just wish I could go back in time. I would turn down work to be in Savannah to help but coulda, woulda, shoulda. I never even thought to look to see if it had aluminum heads and I didn't ask either. Dave Dudek and Wayne Nelson aren't dumb. Don't you think if there was "cheating" going on that they and/or the Hotrod folks would've known? And if Jim's car did have aluminum heads for this shoot out I would think it was with the blessing of all involved. The fact remains that Jim invested a huge amount of his own time, money and effort to represent Buicks in this shoot out when no one else would and I for one respect that. As for the Hemi/Buick rivalry I think that the Hemi probably was faster. It was a detuned race motor vs. a warmed up passenger car motor. I think given that, it is great to be one of the 2 or 3 fastest musclecars to ever leave the factory and I think more people respect the Buick than are willing to admit it. Buick Power!
I wished I had the foresight to buy a Hemi back when they were cheap. Then I could now sell it and buy several more Stage-1's. Jim your car ran great by the way. Dudek has had so many years to play with and lighten that car over the years it is not even funny. You had no time at all. I saw an article several years ago on Dudeks car and he even hollowed out the battery and put a tiny one inside. How much quicker could the Buick go with this kind of time prep? I hate to see anyone insult our Buicks on this site. By all means give the brand Xers the :moonu: . Much more fun.
The Hot Rod article states and I quote" They did not catch the heads,which turned out to be TA Performance aluminum units that are not F.A.S.T.-legal."
Bob, First off, let me say I never spoke to Wayne Nelson before the race in Cordova. So his version of what was and wasnt doesnt mean much to me at all. And if you think the HEMI was F.A.S.T. legal you would be sorely mistaken, but hey, you werent in Cordova were you? So I guess your version doesnt mean much to me at all either. He said - she said is not for me, and I will keep my facts to myself. The RoadRunner is a very nice car and I will leave it at that and not try to detract from his efforts. PS In case you dont know, this was not a FAST race, or sanctioned by FAST. Slicks are not allowed in FAST. My car is not a FAST car, and never was intended to be. I didnt try to hide anything, obviously. We built the engine in 4 days. Spent one day on the dyno, and 3 days later we were in Cordova. I think the point the guys are trying to make here is that you seem to be the only one beating me up over this, and you cant seem to move on. In fact, you seem to be the only one who cares. What beef do you have with me? You even came on the BPG board a while back and apologised to me about your comments, then deleted your apology a day later. Nice work. Lastly, I hope you dont think I'm not holding my head high over my efforts in the shootout. In fact I am. I gave it my best shot considering the circumstances, and I cant help it if you continue to have a problem with the way I prepared my car. Try this for a change. If you dont like it, dont comment. And next time a shootout opportunity pops up, and NO ONE from the Buick community steps up, know I will be nominating you, here on the board, so everyone can pass judgement on your efforts as you have done mine. Cant wait to see how YOU do, and good luck! :TU:
Bob, This was posted by Dave Dudek on the Year One site back first of the year, during discussion about the Cordova shootout and how he was preparing his car for the race. Some questions were asked about his trans and rear end choice and this was his responce. The Cordova race was not a FAST event. Period. And after reading the above statement by Dave, how would you have prepared your car? Dont answer that, I dont really want to know. :TU:
Bob, I have had correspondence with both owners on agreed parameters, this was NOT a F.A.S.T. race ........ so.... leave it alone. JH
