Bob, I will not lock the topic........ you have no dog in this hunt whatsoever, nor do you have ANY first hand knowledge of anything else beforehand... if your not happy with the outcome, then just spend your own damm money, and DO IT YOURSELF !!!!!!!! money of which you don't have, a capable car that you don't have, resources that you don't have, and a project that you couldn't do anyway, because you don't have the knowledge or connections.... so, put up or shut up Bob, plain and simple as that. :TU: JH
Mr. Rodgers I don't know you, but I do salute you for taking on the task of representing the Buick community! I was suprised that others on this board or in the community didn't jump at the chance to do it. After all, the Hemi/Stage race is legendary to us Buick people and is one reason the 455 has the name it has now decades later. Like many others, I don't have the money to do something like this. If I did have the cash, I still don't know if I would have taken on the challange because it was a huge burden with all eyes on it. So again I salute you. Your car performed great and I can only imagine how much better it would have done with more time to spend on it.
I've been away for a few days so I will re-read this post before I really jump in here. But a couple of things I noted. 1) The rules of the race "were" F.A.S.T. specs on slicks. All knew this going in. That goes for all 3 racers. 2) If your going to imply "Dave Dudek" didn't meet the F.A.S.T. specs, then state where. 3) On the Mopar board "Stage 1 Buicks" get all the respect in the world. I'm posting all the time over there and the guys know I own a Stage 1 car. Stop crying about the Hemi guys giving no respect to the Buick camp. That's Bogus. 4) All 3 are great cars in their own way. Move on! Patrick
I think the whole brand vs brand is dumb. What if they ran the hemi against a 1500HP turbo GN? My point is that unless they raced period correct cars against each other there are too many variables to call the issue over. I guess I also don't see why there even is such an issue. Both motors make 600HP. Neat. Choose the car you prefer, and go with it. I hate brand bashing and brand battles. Why can't we all just hold hands and sing about Coca-Cola? Or should we be singing about Pepsi? Where's my Barry Manilow CD's?
Funny thing is..........In this application/combo,I seriously doubt there would be much ET difference between an Aluminum and Iron head :Smarty: Funny the things you see people debate on the internet JR Thanks for your effort in this Race,You represented well.
Congrats to the Hemi-Camp.. Congrats to the hemi-Camp... It's only taken them 22 years since Roy Badie and his Hemi got spanked by Richard L. ,to beat the " as we all know" a Buick... of all things. The hemis are supposed to run fast, after all that's what all the TV commericals have always told the public. We all know the Buicks are just a good grocery getter, cus that's again what the commericals and the magazines told us, right? Perception of the public has and always will be "purchased". The perception is that the hemi can't lose, but when it gets beat by the slower "perceived " Buick, then, well, ah, oops, wha-happened ?, we thought the hemi's were supposed to be faster cuz thats what we have all been told by the media for all these years. Most Buick lovers have their Buicks because they just like Buicks. Most of us too, also fell victim of the "perceived" lack of performance that the Buick was supposed to have had...untill we found ourselves winning most street encounters behind the wheel of our Buick's. It seems like we always have to apologize or make excuses on why our Buicks are so fast because of the wonderful job of brainwashing that was done by the media. But it's too late now! The word is out and has been for 25+ years, that if you line up next to a Buick you better forget what you read and do whatever you can to hold on to your perceived image, which obviously was done quit well here , I might add! So congratulations to the hemi-camp. And speaking of hemi-camp... If they want to stay ahead...its time to put out the fire and saddle up and get going, cuz the Buick posse will always be there to keep them awake at nights! Its nice not living up to the "perceived" Buick image...Isn't it? :eek2: GSX Eric / :3gears:
Gary: I was thinking the same thing. If it were an application where you could only use pump gas it would be different. Otherwise, the only real advantage is weight savings.
The Truth Is...their both fastest In showroom form, a Buick has an advantage with its good low end efficiency and q-jet (vs two AFB carbs). At 400-500 hp in basic stock form, I'll bet on the Buick. At 600 hp, the old Buick Q-jet and exhaust manifolds are at a big disadvantage plus hemis gain efficiency at higher flow output. At 800 hp and up..with a single q-jet... what do you think? Back to the 50 Fastest and stock apearing catagory. Buick is B_B_BAD!!! Just be realistic. If we can somehow stretch the Q-jet to 600 hp wins, that will be an exceptional stretch for us Buick quys. There is a limit. Buicks can beat Hemis to a point. Somewhere between 500 and 800 hp, it ends. The Hemi guys appreciate us for what we have, and I appreiciate them for what they have. We both have the fastest cars to a point.
The whole thing in my opinion is really ridiculous. The cars are race cars disguised as bone stockers. The Hemi is certainly not 426 cubic inches. More like 495-525 cubes. If the exhaust manifolds, heads and intake were ported any more, I'm sure you'd be able to see through them. And those AFB's dont flow 625 cfm anymore either. Im sure its the same with Jims Buick. I dont take much stock in who won. Theyre both wicked fast cars. Both owner have a ton of work and money into those cars. I congratulate both participants. This time it was the Hemi, next time it'll be the Buick. This feud has been raging since Roy Badie and Rich Lasseter ran over 20 years ago. Dont take this stuff so damn serious guys. This is a HOBBY. Let these races motivate you to build a musclecar and kick some butt on the track. :3gears:
if niether cars met fast rules why was the buick mentioned for an oversized fuel line and al heads while the hemi was not mentioned for anything.anyway bottom line is that hemi is well known to be prob be the baddest stock appearing car on the planet and i hate to say it but there isnt a stock appearing gs that can beat it on slicks.giving that car slicks is allowing it to use a loose converter so it launches right in its power band(at high rpm's)so it doesnt always have to play catch up like on bias plys.gessler prob nows this thats prob why he turned down the offer.look at the mph he's been in the high 120's for a while, that tells it all.with the right converter the slicks where a bigger advantage to him than to a gs thats going to be right in power band when it leaves giving us the head start.the heads on that hemi flow 416 in 285 ext,throw 1250cfm on top of that w the right cam and you got lots of rpm's wich =hp. those exausts flow what my ported irons flow on the intake,pretty insane.so i give jim credit for volunteering on such short notice,its like being thrown to the wolves.hey jim the artical claims your engine dynoed at 696hp @5600rpm's,is that right or is it supposed to be 596hp.the only reason im asking is because of your 117-118mph from an obviously hard launching car.if it is 696hp you definately got a shot next time when the car is dialed in and you shed a few pounds. later chris...
I had to install my .02 here . What a beautiful car JR ! The job you guys, Wildcat and Then and Now did was awsome . Thats said I really do agree that the Hemi is a pure race machine and not a pass car engine . The Buicks are more like a 440 then most people know . There is a reason that top fuel cars use a variant of the Hemi . I would put a Stage 1 against any stock compression, manifold and carb 440 and Hemi car in NHRA pure stock form . When you start puishing the envelope the Hemi really comes to life . 10's I say not bad JR and I appreciate your effort . The aluminum head thing was in the magazine and I could care less , too bad you couldnt use a Stage 2 head ! I sometimes get down when I see cars like yours and that GSX that JW just finished because of the money thing . I want my cars to look that nice and be that correct ! Just have to realize that not everyone can do it and move on and do my best . As for all this negativity I thought the Buick guys were better than all that . I use to belong to a Mustang club and after meeting many of you guys at the NATS I sold my 69 Mach 1 that I owned for most of my life and started doing these Buicks . Mostly because of the people I met and did business with while buying my cars and parts . I won't mention any names but where else would a complete stranger sell you a car and let you pick it up still owing him 1K then be willing to take the car back if you change your mind ? I hope we can all get past this and what ever else is behind the digs . Oh is that car fireglow ?
Believe it or not, the heads arent the holdup, it is the intake manifold that chokes these things to death.
both the sbb's and bbb's?!. i guess street manners were more of a concern? Jim - i congratulate you on your efforts - 3 days to put a racecar together is quite an achievement, and 10's with that time is even more of an acheviement. Hell i bet we couldn't get our 2.5 4cyl racetruck together and racing in that time! Even if wew were paid! Congrats again!
its the whole induction system,carb,intake and heads.not to mention exaust manifolds,the hemi ext manifolds resemble headers much more than ours and at this point its gone more in there teritory, and im glad to say we've given them a hell of a run for there money,more than just about any other make.our motors were designed to get the big barges up and movin quick and that they do better than the rest but no matter what you do they cannot breathe as well at high rpm's as a hemi and thats just the honest truth cumin from a die hard buick man of 18 yrs so far.i hope somebody proves me wrong,i'll be the first one kickin, screamin and braggin .ive always said bbb motors make great street motors but as with everything they have there limitations specially in stock appearing form.by the way there was allready a round 3 back about 10 yrs ago that was not recognized,i think it was the guys at gs auto body in canada and a local hemi owner staged round three,hot rod mag was present but after there stock gsx spanked them in the first race the hemi cuda put there car back on the trailer out of embaresment so hr mag wouldnt cover the story,it got buried and the gsx was in the low 12's not low 10's so round 3 never got covered but was supposed to be,i know someone else has to remember this one please chime in.we need to back this thing up a bit and do it on pump gas maybe w wieght limitation and then we got a fair fight.im in the high tens(on pump gas iron heads)imagine what the likes of gessler and rob @stage 1 could do.to me a real muscle car can be fired up swill pump gas and race on the street,but thats just me. before i go this article was definatly writen in favor of the chrysler but you gotta take the good and the bad. later chris..
Both cars are impressive and have nothing to be ashamed of. Losing to a 496ci hemi with 13+:1 compression built by a serious Mopar guru is nothing to be upset about.
The engine made 696 horsepower at 5600 rpm. We lost some in the rest of the combination though. I feel like converter is an issue and the fuel system is operating at about 50% capacity of what we need, so upgrades are in order there too. Thanks for the compliments tho! :TU:
then thats a hell of a stock appearing engine,i'm impressed.when you get that car dialed please come back on this board and let us know what it runs.i know your gunna be burried deep in the 10's on slicks
