Some of you might be interested in this link. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.517125028297923.130194.129776270366136&type=3
Looking at the face book info it looks like Thornton from Pa owns the car and is also the guy who is responsible for this forgery. That is too bad as it looks like they do nice work.
Man that shop had better back pedal and get some serious before shots or they have shot themselves in the head beyond words. First pic in that list is a straight up "Watch This" with with Barrett Jackson 2013 spray painted on the rear quarters. Then there are pictures of a removed Vin and Body Tag?? There sure looks like no reason for that to be pulled off that car. Not that I can see. If you jump into the ring like Barrett Jackson you better cross those T's and dot those I's. If a customer shows up to you with a car with a removed VIN tag and says it is real and your company name is on it you better make sure BIG TIME. This whole thing has a smell beyond words. I am big Olds guy but does anyone know is that the highest price paid for a 70 442? Who would throw that kind of jack at that car. No offense I love the car but 325k?? Really? Hmmm just doesn't make sense. That shop may do great work but their name is riding on this car huge. Why would it be necessary to pull the VIN and body tag? You Got's some splainin' to do Lucy.
Oh yeah how do they know it is one of four? They don't. That is another part of the smoke screen that is showing here. There are zero facts like that available ANYWHERE from Oldsmobile. ZERO.
If you look at the first qtr panel pictures you can see how bad those wheel well lips were butchered up. With those tags removed it would be a good idea to check the CON Vin Carefully.<o></o>
I guess these guys have access to perfect rivits so they can attach these vin #s and trim tag back on the car without detection ! Something don't smell right here !!! :eek2:
I see they also have transmission tags. Do we have to start worrying about forged Stage 1 transmissions too?
I was actually being a litte sarcastic with my last post. removing the VIN and trim tag is part of any concours resto. That is a plain fact. ---------- Post added at 08:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 AM ---------- as these cars get more and more valuable, we, as collectors need to get bettter and better at ferreting out forgeries. We all need to be as knowledgable as Duane. Ive said it before- if you want to see the future of this hobby, look to the corvette guys. Theyve been dealing with tihs for a long time. We're just starting to. There are some real Rembrandts out in the Corvette world. There are experts in the Corvette world that can spot a restamp because they kow what factory st louis broaching marks look like. Forgeries in the Corvette world are blacklisted in the NCRS
I don't think using unsubstantiated "facts" is a smokescreen, but in my perfect world people who are expert restorers should know how to discern through the BS. In reality, someone who's good at wet sanding may not necessarily be good at trivia. If anything, I bet they know of four 4-speed W-30 ragtops in Rally Red, but that hardly constitutes total production or anything factual for that matter.
"I was actually being a litte sarcastic with my last post. removing the VIN and trim tag is part of any concours resto. That is a plain fact." Jason, I don't agree with your statement at all. Have you taken a survey of all major shops doing Concours restorations? A few folks maybe removing those tags but I sure wouldn't. Why? You may have tried to be sarcastic, but the fact is a lot of people don't think that should be done, especially to the VIN. The shop I worked at only did that on one car's trim tag and that tag ended up being "misplaced". While it's legal to remove, repair, and reinstall the VIN on the car it was removed from, that just doesn't seem like something that has to be done in most cases. My only concern would be when dipping a car body, but only if the VIN tag appeared corroded in the first place. It might be wise in that scenerio to remove the V.I.N. tag.
I think we can all agree on the fact that the VIN and trim tag represent the car. If those items get damaged, your SOL. Your concours restoration just turned into a very expensive parts car as there is no replacement for the VIN. A concours restored car with a state issued VIN is worthless. Are you really going to trust the guy at the blasting company to not destroy that fragile piece of metal if he blasts it off the car by accident or warps it? Secondly, are you not going to refinish under the trim tag on a nut and bolt resto? Are you just going to mask off the tag and leave the rust underneath the tag? What if you had to do some metalwork around the VIN? its not uncommon to replace the cowl secion due to rust. Or do you just junk the car because of a rust spot in that area? Think about it. It makes perfect sense to remove them for safekeeping.
Hi Jason, Blast off the tags? Yea, I hear of that happening all the time. ou: Shouldn't you remove all the sheetmetal too, if the fellow is going to use that kind of pressure? What media are we using to blast with, bricks? Rust under a trim tag so bad that it would, as a matter of routine, need removed. That's one rusty cowling! Jason, you know I appreciate the majority of your postings, but I don't see these things as necessary in the majority of restorations, concours or otherwise. AGAIN, if repair is necessary, or if the body is being dipped and the tags show corrosion, then I could see them being removed, but not as common practice. I have thought about it. I'm frustrated that so many people are alarmed at the practice of restamping parts but don't seem to give a hoot about the V.I.N. tag issues surrounding the hobby. It just seems so casual to so many...o No:
No offense but that is exactly what it is. If they aren't true facts then they aren't facts at all. You say whatever you want to say and are using that as a selling point when in fact there are no facts. Leaves the door open to say whatever someone wants to say to sell their car. This whole deal has stink all over it. Where are the pictures of the VIN and Body Tag mounted ON the car? I still say it is crazy to say that all restored cars have had the VIN and body tag removed. That is just crazy. Yes I would work around the VIN and body tag during a restroration. Once those things are removed whole different ball game. Just my opinion. Seriously though where are the before pictures of that 442 ragtop with the plates in place?
Anyone with pockets deep enough to spend that kind of money on a car, has the money to lawyer up, and bring them down. I see no reason to remove a VIN tag for a nut 'n bolt resto. Unless the cowl is so far gone you have no choice. In my eyes, just the fact it was removed at all deducts value from the car. Just my opinion, but it would if I were buying it.
