Folks in GS Nationals FB Page Wanting LSx Allowed?

There was a Corvair with a Buick motor running in Bracket 1. Ran in the 10s. I think it has come to nationals for a lot of years and been allowed to run.

Also an early 80s Chevy Malibu with a SS Monte Carlo front nose running a turbo 6 motor that was allowed to run all weekend.

 

Seriously? You're comparing a junkyard LS to a Tomahawk?

 

I remember years ago when a Camaro with a 455 won S16....they quickly changed the rules.....no non-Buick bodies in S16.

 

Yep! I endured the "Goin' Slow" and "Girl Scout" from a co worker way back when also
Seems now the older (our) Buicks command respect at the track or on the street, Thats why I'll NEVER sell mine

 

Congratulations, you have a junkyard stock engine.. so what.. to attempt to compare that to any aftermarket custom race engine, regardless of brand, is just silly.

I have seen the invoices for Serious performance LS motors, and they are no cheaper than anything else.. because they are actually more expensive to machine, if your going to do it right. The only advantage they have is they are the current bellybutton motor, so there are many vendors in the market trying to make a buck. Lots of parts, lots of good stuff, lots of junk.

JW

 

That is a point I have never considered. A Tomahawk race engine uses the same number of parts from Buick as a LS engine. But a Tomahawk could accept a Buick part. There is at least one guy running iron manifolds and a set of stock valve covers on a Tomahawk engine, so it does have at least a few genuine Buick parts on it. I guess that makes it a Buick.

If I make adapters to put Buick valve covers on my LSA engine to hide the coils would that satisfy the Buick purists?

To promote Buick harmony I'll continue to bring Buick-powered Buicks.

 

This year, there was a big block Buick powered Camaro, an S10 as well as a Mazda RX-7 and a Mustang with a turbo motors. I didn't see the turbo Cobra kit car this year.

Personally, being a Bowling Green local, I'm looking for a cheap Vette with a blown motor. I'd love to drop a nice big block in one to see what it would do. There is a guy that built a CobraVette. He's a Ford guy that married a Corvette woman and was tired of lackluster performance.

What part from an LS engine fits on any a Buick of any size, from 215 to 455? Maybe a few fasteners? Certainly nothing substantial like a cam, crank, head or valve cover. Speaking of valve covers, the LS has the ugliest valve covers known to man.

By comparison, the Tomahawk block is a purpose built Buick-styled piece that will accept nearly every stock Buick big block part available, by design, while solving some of the inherent limitations of the stock iron block. Ken Betts is also building a Buick-styled block from iron that will solve the weak, ever scarcer iron block issue.

 

Some of these comments crack me up. I hope people don't think that the attendance at this year's NATS is the norm because it isn't. It was great to see the big crowds this year but this thing has been heading in the wrong direction for a while. People getting older, cars dissapearing etc etc. Something will have to change for it to survive.
I remember people bashing GNs for being there. Truth is GNs have saved this event. Don't kid yourself.
I'm a purist and I'm in this buick deal till the end or until the Tomahawk proves that it can't be reliable. That is yet to be decided.
One final note. I do think it's hilarious to watch people rush up to the starting line to watch Justin Cox or Jeff Hart make a hit in their twin turbo non buick powered cars. Hypocritical I think based on this thread.

 

Why not? Some people say the cost is the same to build one.

Look at the SBB or BBB. We got what maybe 3-4 vendors selling parts. You really think their just going to give you their 1 of 12 SBB part? BBB parts are more readily available if you don't mind not paying your mortgage or eating for a few months. Almost as much as building a Tomahawk.

But I guess its the same cookie cutter recipe when you swap out your SBB for a BBB, right?

 

I believe the Tomahawk is as reliable as you make it. No different than any other aftermarket based engine.

You make a good point in your last line. People wanna see fast, well engineered stuff more than they care about cookie stuff no matter the brand.

The GS Nationals are more about a camaradie that stems from being the underdog. Not many people with an LS engine recognize or care about that.

 

Due to age and expenses, you’re running out of underdogs. Expand it, or perish. The future is now, old men

 

Why is it that everybody thinks a non buick running a buick motor at the NATS is so cool yet a GS with a twin turbo ls is blasphemy?
I say it's really not any different. (Insert change my mind meme here) lol

 

I'd considered this point and it is a good argument. Buick was (is?) more than just the engine but that does tend to be our focus.

 

Buick or not? Will you stop walking around a cruise or show and look at this beast? I would.

It is on eBay right now and I would love to own it. LS and all.

Folks, keep in mind, the 250 Chevy was in what we consider classic Buicks. This reminds me of the Bible and who casts the first stone...let's not be so judgemental.

Engines can be changed back!

 

The engine is the heart and soul of a car. The sheet metal is just the pretty face that we fall in love with.

If you start allowing non-Buick powered cars to compete, you encourage the wholesale replacement of the Buick engines. Pretty soon, there won't be any Buick-powered Buicks left with the hastened demise.

 

Sheet metal is exactly half of the equation. The car doesn't exist without the vin......which is on the body. A GS is still a GS without the original engine and it doesn't cease to be a GS without it.
You can have a non Buick powered class and it would be just fine. Shouldn't be any hurt feelings from the Buick powered guys. Maybe even set up some grudge races between the two. There's a way to make it happen.

 

The writing is on the wall folks johnriv67 said it best actually.

If the event doesn't open up to "others" there will eventually be no event at all. Like many have stated give them their own show and race class. But all in all without the younger generations getting into old cars the hobby will eventually die completely. Good thing I've kept quite about possibly putting a 12V 5.9 Cummins in my 69 Riv if my new 455 build doesn't work out

 

If you want to watch an LS run in just about anything imaginable go to the Holley LS Fest at BG. If you want to see the GS Nationals become the Spring LS event just allow them in to the races. Especially when they find out how much some of the faster classes are paying. How about a turbo LS in a GN running in some of the heads up classes against the turbo V6 cars or in the Super Sixteen? How do you think that would work out? If they let in LS powered cars then why not any other Brand X power? Maybe they would show up for a separate LS/Brand X race class but unless there is some nice payout then it is doubtful many would show. As far as I'm concerned if you have a LS powered Buick anything that is fine but I don't have to agree with it or approve of it or accept it at the Nationals. I was there when there were 30 Buick powered cars in attendance and hopefully I'll be there right to the very end with all Buick powered cars. If they let in LS/Brand X in I'll still be there. That brings me to the idea that just because you have a Buick you are a Buick supporter. If it came with a Buick engine under the hood and doesn't have a Buick engine under the hood then you are only half a Buick supporter. That doesn't include the newer Buicks and the older ones with corporate engines in them. That's a whole 'nother discussion. On that point why not get a Rainier with LS power and put a turbo on it. Then at least you could make some kind of argument.

One last semi-related point. If you haven't been to the GS Nationals lately or plan on going soon or have not supported some local Buick show or race then why are you even discussing this?

 

Engine swaps give cars a second chance on the road. Many swapped cars are found rotting away or abandoned tucked away until discovered by somebody with an itch to wrench. My firebird was on its way to the scrap yard if it didn't sell.

Id rather see an old classic back on the road showing off its lines, curves, colors and shiny chrome any day. Designes that we will never see again due to safety, emission ect ect. Versus it continuing to rot away in a corner.

 

What exactly are you scared of? If they have their own class whats the problem? You can even put a cap on the amount of non buick powered cars. This event will either evolve or die eventually. Renting a track isn't cheap and if there's no money to be made it won't continue.