Making peak hp at 4100 rpms!

I just ordered the Lunati Voodoo 67002: https://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1496&gid=287

Time to call TA to get some lifters

 

Hows your timing chain, maybe consider replacing it if you haven't already. Other than that, grab yourself a gasket kit if you need, cam assembly lube, and all that good stuff. Nothing worse than getting it apart, putting it back together and realizing you forgot a gasket!

Have you thought about what you want to do with the heads?

 

You should make sure the lifter preload is .040 +/- .010 like I've been telling you for the last couple weeks, before tearing into the engine. Your heads may already be milled, you have unknown head gasket thickness, and unknown pushrod length. Change the valve springs before pulling the heads, as I said to you before they are a wear item and mine are changed out every season as cheap insurance.

 

Somebody listen to what Artie says, please. This is the kind of thread that makes my stomach churn. Why all the talk about changing the cam. Please get the car onto a chassis dyno or go to a dragstrip and see what the car is really running. It would be worth the ride to get to a dyno. 60-80 bucks for 3 runs and maybe the operator can guide you with your problem.

If there is nothing wrong with the cam you have in going to the Lunati cam, nice as it is, will do almost nothing. Maybe change peak power up 100 rpm and rev only 100 rpm more. It is only a few degrees more than what you have and some extra lift. Why not pull some springs and have them checked or just spend the cash for some fresh TA ones that will actually take less time than a cam change. Especially if you're going to do headwork later you can reuse them. Get some adjustable pushrods from TA(you'll need something other than stock if you go milling the heads) and set the preload to .030" max and maybe even less for max rpm. Too much preload will kill your rpm potential faster than just about anything.

Before you go even that far I'd pull the valve covers and check to see that every rocker arm was lifting about the same amount. I had a 350 with a mild KB cam and one day it just started going alot slower at the track but it still ran smooth. Couldn't feel any miss but when I got home and checked 2 or 3 lobes were all of a sudden wiping themselves out and this was on a cam that had thousands of miles on it in this engine.

My friend has a TA c110 in a fairly mild 455 and dips into the 12's on a cool day and shifts at about 5300. Pulls to there no problem. On a 350 it should pull to 5500+ no problem. A stock 350 will pull to 5000 rpm and feel nice up there. I'd say the 4800 rpm TA is quoting is the area where it will make peak power max while the Lunati cam spec just means it will rev that high and make nice power without rolling off badly. There will not be a big peak power rpm difference.

There's not many dyno runs with 350's here but look at the 455 dyno results and you'll see that even the big street cams make peak power in the mid 5000 rpm range. Now a 350 with the same cam will make peak power a few hundred rpm more. I wouldn't expect a mild 350 cam to make peak power above 5000 no matter what.

Forget about changing heads, bigger cams, different intakes, higher compression, changing carbs(even the jetting) and all that stuff. Get what you have running right and it will run good. Something is amiss and that needs to be fixed.

Ask Carson what he thinks about doing all the mods to his car. He ran faster than probably 75% of the 350 cars on this site with a stock cam. Now how's he ACTUALLY running after all the money he spent? I haven't seen a timeslip in a long time.(Here's a free tip for him and he can take it or leave it: Sell that "single plane intake" and 850 Double Pumper(!) you have, buy a TA intake or reinstall the stock one with a Q-Jet or 770 Avenger or maybe 870 and you'll find out where your et's went. You'll come out ahead performance wise and put some well needed cash in your pocket. And I have to do this::bla: )

Artie ran faster than 80% of the 350's here with a stock cam. Listen to Artie. He actually runs his car.

I'd say Cody's car should dip into the 13's as is when everything is right. Absolutely 13's with a converter and some better gears. Somebody suggested earlier that you use the G-Tech in third gear for more accurate and consistant results.

If I was friends with Cody or Carson I'd be giving the same advice face to face so don't take this too harshly.

 

No Lift, Artie, this is the kind of blunt help ive been looking for all along. Ive heard so many theories but have not really been told the things to check.

Artie how can i check the lifter preload and the valve springs?

No Lift i removed my valve cover but i cannot move the rockers. Does the car need to be running for this?

 

limits are; shift at 6500 with a t/a intake, 7500 with my single plane. that being said, you wont be to do this unless its an all out engine. and i dont worry about the engine because its all in preparation that allows me to do stupid things like 300 deg overheating, enormous internal water leaks and 10,000 rpm.:laugh:

 

also, with my setup when it gets above 3500 rpm, it zooms to 7500. between shift drop off is minimal, maybe 200 rpm.

wish the manufacturers would look at the sbb and start making parts.

 

Are you smoking crack? We dyno proved the X factor intake on a 10:1 350 with the same head flow as Casons heads and it made over 550 hp an pulled higher rpms way better than the TA and that was with a 1000 cfm carb.

Sure Cason has not got things dialed in yet but do not try to claim that his intake or the 850 cfm carb is the problem! This kid is building this with spare cash while going to school and he will get it tuned right but it takes time and he may not have the experience that people like Artie have but he is doing a great job!

If Sonny Seal ran in the 10s NA with an all iron car and a 350 that swallowed 1500 cfm of carb then please do not try to tell us 850 cfm is too much for a built 350!

 

I've never pulled into the staging beams and seen a dyno sheet in the other lane. Dynos are for tuning, period. Track results will show what the car has. I always hear about Sonny Seal's car, but it seems that his car is the only NA Buick 350 to ever run the number. Until someone comes close to that number at the track, the dyno talk is a waste of bandwidth. I know of at least 3 Buick 350s running in the 12s, but haven't seen any 11s or 10s personally. Let's see some timeslips from the dyno queens.

 

You can check rocker arm movement a couple of ways. With a valve cover off have somebody start the car and watch the line of rockers as the move up and down at idle. After you watch them for a few seconds you should be able to pickup if one or more is not moving as much as the others. Id do one side at a time because when you start it it wont take long for oil to start going everywhere. You could also remove the coil wire and ground it so the car doesnt start. Have somebody crank the engine while you watch the rockers for movement that appears consistent. Last you could turn the engine over by a wrench on the crankshaft but it will take much more of a discerning eye to spot the differences. It should be obvious if there is a difference. Remember there may be some difference between the intake and exhaust lifts but it should be slight. If you are doing it the last two ways make sure the engine has been run just before you do it to make sure the lifters are pumped up and not collapsed.

Some springs (if not all) will have to be taken off and taken to a machine shop to be checked. You will have to measure accurately the installed spring height. This is from the spring seat to underneath the spring retainer. That can be measured after you remove a spring. Reinstall the retainer and locks and measure with a caliper. You can give that to the shop and they can tell you what the seat pressure and then you would tell them what lift the cam is and they would be able to tell you what the over the nose spring pressure is.
Like I said before it probably would be just about as cheap to buy a fresh set of Stage 1 springs from TA and with no more labor than checking them.

Now measuring preload is a little trickier unless you have one adjustable pushrod. With that you could install it at the intake of one cylinder and adjust for 0 preload. Measure the difference between the adjustable one and then the factory ones and the difference is your preload. Do the same on the exhaust.

If you cant do it that way it gets tricky but Ive done it another way and it will give you a ballpark figure. It is actually pretty easy once you see what is going on. #1 cylinder is the easiest to work with so that is where I usually do it. Rotate the engine around, with a wrench is the best so you can accurately move it, until both pushrods at #1 are at their lowest point (on the base circle). It might be even easier to do the intake first and then the exhaust. If you do it that way set one or the other at its lowest point. That is the one you are measuring. Now loosen up the first three bolts holding down the rocker arms. They just have to be loose enough to have no preload on #1 cylinder. The pushrods should be loose in their cups. Start tightening the third bolt down. If you feel all the slack come out of the pushrod of whatever valve you are measuring at #1 stop and back the bolt out a half turn. Then go to the second bolt and start tightening it down. Again watch for all the slack coming out of the pushrod you are measuring. Make sure there is a slight amount of looseness between the pushrod and rocker arm of the valve you are measuring. Now start turning the #1 bolt slowly in until all the slack/clearance is out of the assembly you are checking. If you try to spin the pushrod with your fingers youll just start to feel some resistance. Stop. Now heres the measurement. Carefully count how many turns it takes to completely tighten the #1 bolt down. Best to use a ratchet, without ratcheting it of course, because it will be easy to see a partial rotation. The rocker retaining bolts are 5/16 x 18 which means for every complete turn you have about .055 of preload. Partial turns do count so try to do it carefully. A couple of times wouldnt hurt.

Pretty much all the different cylinders and valves will need slightly different length pushrods to have the absolutely best preload but for most cases getting the idea of what the preload you have in one cylinder is all you need.

Most factory preload is pretty high to keep the lifter quiet but lots of times high performance cams have smaller base circles which will remove preload. The engine can have differences from side to side, intake to exhaust, and it will change from any head or block milling or using thinner gaskets. That is why adjustable rockers or pushrods are needed on HiPo Buick engines. You can set the correct preload no matter what youve done to the engine. You can order a set of correct length pushrods but in the long run if you change anything you might need to get a different length. And you had better have made the correct measurements in the first place. Thats why the adjustables are good.

If you were going to spend the money on a cam Id take it and get the springs and pushrods. Then youll know you are set up right. It is just the price of going faster.

 

LOOK Smarta$$es! When I got this car when I started modding this car there were two conditions that I had to live with. I can't pull an engine, and I can't build a bottom end because I have no room. So I spared no dollar trying to get them most as I possibly could from the stock bottom end, and it's not perfect and I'm not done.

Now get the crap out of your eyes and read carefully. My life does not revolve completely around racing this car! Last spring/summer I was making thousands of dollars per month because of some smart business decisions I made. So naturally I spent most of it on some nice parts, and I built me a nice little performer that I can drive cross country no problem and get decent mileage doing it. However, THIS IS MY ONLY CAR! If it breaks, I can't drive it! I no longer make as much as I used to. I delivered pizzas in this car this spring, buying gas every 2-3 days for months. I never had a single breakdown or problem. I don't have alot of spare money, so the car doesn't go to the track. Simple enough. So save your cute little dyno-track comment. No one is impressed.

Here's a free tip: you know nothing about this intake or carb! You can take all the TA intakes and Q-Jets you want.

I got a question for you, what were you doing when your were 17-19? What were you driving? A POS I'm sure!!

P.S. The name in my signature is not misspelled.

 

I agree Larry. 100%. People should at least try an iPodou:.

However, I have stopped making any (non-timeslip) claims on this board.

My 350 may have a 12.9 in it or a 13.6. I'll figure it out one day, but until then I'll enjoy my car on the street, and the peace of mind that it won't break on me. If I can't make this bottom end live until I graduate school with a decent job, I would be in a big mess. This 160k motor still has 20 psi hot idle oil pressure with 10w-30 oil so it's in fantastic shape.

If anyone knows how I could squeeze more juice out of this motor without power adders please let me know. I'm thinking it's the cam that's the only restriction.

 

couldnt agree more with the gtech thing.......there are wayyyy too many factors involved to be using the gtech as an accurate base for anything other than approximate times.
The best way for any motor to make its most power is properly matched parts and precise tuning. You can build 5 motors with all the same parts and each will perform differently......tuning each to its ability is the key.
That said...Kody has in my eye a motor that is at its potential for the parts that are in it and the tuning it has...besides...to get a 3800 lb car to go 13 seconds take a fair amount of hp. And not to mention that virtually every car that runs the 12-13 second times has gears and converters to make that happen, which makes these cars non daily drivers for most...the factory built them like they did for a reason.
Kody will get his motor and converter and gears to work....it all takes time and money

 

Tune in tomorrow folks for (AS the G-Tech Turns) same time, same channel!ou:

 

If you have only 2 to 3# hot idle oil press I think you better find the cause before you do anything else. Otherwise you stand a good chance of spending money on performance goodies only to have the engine blow up on you shortly after you get it running good.