Time to build the 455 ive always wanted

I have a good stock crank here, don't have a clue what its worth. anyone??

 

I posted some guidance in your parts wanted ad thread where you can still use the crank you have without having it welded.



Derek

 

Ran into a snag with this build. TA Performance is out of neoprene rear main seals and i cant find one locally. My builder is ready to assemble. Does anyone have a neoprene rear main seal for a 455 stashed away or leads to where i can purchase one?

 

Thanks Larry!

 

The BOP engineering ones are the best anyway. They are Viton, much better material than neoprene.

 

Just a thought here on the pistons. I've done many street motors for people and some of those that supplied pistons w/o notches were sorry later on.
your cam of choice doesn't need notches, but I bet somewhere in the future you're going to want to go faster. don't we all.
And then a more aggressive cam is going to need notches for clearance. You will either stay status quo or rebuild and buy new pistons.
I recommend to all my customers to spend a few bucks more now and get notched pistons for future upgrades.
Some have gone for more hp and were able to keep the shortblock together and just change cams and heads and have thanked me for the suggestion.
gary

 

Good info here but far too late for me. I actually thought about this very same idea for a few weeks while trying to decide which pistons were the best choice for my build and budget. Ultimately i went with the 1611 forged set from TA, no notches there. They were reasonably priced and matched my cam well. So, with the engine in final assembly week, im stuck with what ive got. Im sure it will be fine. Im coming from a mild 350, that i over revved and blew, to this 455 that was hurt when i bought it. So to have a freshly built 464 that will be reliable and torquey is a welcomed treat. I wont know how to act once i get to playing with this motor. It should easliy double the torque I had from my 350 which will be awesome! I think i will be happy for quite a while!

 

As far as I know the TA 1611 pistons are notched.
It is the TA 1621A pistons that are not notched.

 

You are right, I had my numbers wrong. I spoke to my builder today, and will be picking up my motor friday. I will post pics and total cost info at that time. Question, when asked, he said he "took about a 6 or an 8" off the heads when machining them. That seems like a lot. Am I on track here? Also, he said the pistons were 10 or 12 thousandths in the hole and that CR should be around 9.8:1. What info do I need from him to know my exact CR, just for my edification. My understanding is that a zero deck scenario with respect to the pistons is the best course. Am I giving up anything by not being quite there according to my builders swag math. He didn't seem certain when I asked him and I had the impression he was pulling numbers out of his back pocket. When I go to pick up the engine, I'm going to ask for this info. Do machine shops normally give you documents with all your measurements and such on it when you pick up your completed engines? Either way, I'm pumped to have a fresh mill to stuff in my 72 GS!

 

You paid for a high $ build Larry, that's why you got all of that info. Even though all that measuring was probably done, unless he asks the shop to "blueprint"(which is basically what you're talking about)the engine and pay for that service of stopping to write all that info down as it gets machined and built, a shop usually won't offer that info because time is $. Plus not to many shops will dyno an engine unless the customer asks for that service and is willing to pay extra. Unless it is built at a high end shop where the customer is paying high $$, then that's a different story.

By the sounds of reading Duke's posts that his shop isn't the sharpest out there and doesn't have the capability to cut the deck parallel to the mains and doesn't have the ability to even measure the deck height. That being said that doesn't mean for a mild build there would be problems with what he paid for to have done within his budget. They may just of did a cleanup cut on the deck so the head gaskets will seal while trying to keep the pistons below the deck surface? To get the level of quality build that Tri-Shield offers that has to be paid for, not so much with a budget build at the lesser known "generic" shops that are unspecialized that need to get one build done so the next one can be started on and so on....


Derek

 

Yes you should have a check off sheet with all the measurements as a minimum.

 

Just saying the typical every engine machine shop is going to be running the machine measure until they hit their number and move onto the next hole unless the actual final measurements are requested to be written down and even then they'll probably charge for that. Not really a standard practice to write the numbers down, just saying, especially when the same shop assembles it. When I write the numbers down when I measure the bores and pistons when I do a build its usually written on the top of the piston with a sharpie then one bore at a time is measured to try to match the variances with one another. Unless someone requests a blueprint I don't waste my time writing one even though I blueprint build as I go I just don't bother to write it down. With my machine shop I tell him the deck height I want the dimension is written down then machined to with it always being within a couple thou of what I ask for which is probably a compression height rod length and crank stroke stack up variable more than the deck height not being where I asked it to be.

The only thing I know about his machine shop is what Duke has written down and what I read between the lines. I would agree that he should get what he asked for and if they couldn't deliver they should of been honest and told them they didn't have the capability to measure the deck height or machine the deck parallel to the mains, not all shops have the equipment to do so. Its been a while since this thread started so I'm not sure if he asked the shop what they were and weren't capable of? Maybe they needed to mock the 4 corner pistons method before the final deck cut and they didn't get to the point when Duke called? Or the pistons needed to be .010" to .012" in the hole to hit the compression ratio he wanted?



Derek

 

The 6 to 8 comment was more than likely .006" to .008" which is around the thickness of a human hair so I would say a minimal cleanup cut.

If they're using .040" gaskets the pistons shouldn't be no more than .005" in the hole to maintain a .035" to .045" optimal quench.

Not sure what pistons you decided on but if they're the full circle dish type then it doesn't matter so much if they're a bit further in the hole because they don't have a quench pad on the top of the piston anyway.

Unless you're getting a high end build you usually don't get measurements with the build unless you request them and that could be an extra charge depending on the shop?



Derek

 

For what its worth, my shop gave me a copy with all of the measurements with my completed engine.

 

Thanks for chiming in here and for answering my questions. When I spoke to my builder, he just seemed side tracked on the phone. He is the owner of the shop, and what I gathered was one of his workers was the guy who machined the block. He did say if was just a clean up cut so I agree with you Derek, in that .006-.008 was what he meant. What I understand from the comments here, is that I should get some sort of a build sheet with my engine. I very well may, I just never thought to ask my builder. I will be sure to ask the specific questions when I go on Friday to pick up my motor.

I don't want to come off as talking down about my builder or that his shop is lackluster in comparison to other shops, when I for one am not sure of what to ask for or how the process of a full rebuild works. When I asked what he did to the block, some of the things i remember said he was he magnafluxed, bored, torque plate honed, line honed, clean up cut the deck, JW oil mods. Heads had new guides installed, new valves, spring height set, multi angle valve job. I could be missing a few things here but off the top of my head, this is what I remember.

 

Right there in bold is where you can ask if that cleanup cut is parallel to the mains and if a specific dimension was planned on when they did this operation to set the quench with the planned head gasket thickness. This question pertains to your compression ratio and quench that if they understood what you communicated to them that you wanted it a specific way they should give it to you that way. Zero deck doesn't mean .010" to .012" in the hole, unless they're planning on using head gaskets that have a compressed thickness of .025" to .033" to get your quench to .035" to .045" range.

And if you want the measurements written down you should call them and tell them you want that so they make sure they do that, you should probably call them tomorrow before its to late.



Derek

 

You paid the premium to have your engine ran on the dyno so that could of been included with that service? Not sure if Duke's engine will be going to the dyno or if he will be breaking in the cam with it in the car?



Derek