Time to build the 455 ive always wanted

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by duke350, Jun 17, 2015.

Page 5 of 9
  1. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    You need 455 specific throttle bracket, and cable. There is a spring hook that fits underneath one of the intake bolts. The spring connects there and at the throttle arm. This is all stock pieces.

    [​IMG]

    Used oil will have a reflective sheen to it. That is normal. As long as there is no metal in the oil and filter.

    The valve cover bolts can vibrate loose and the gasket can fail. I like to glue the gasket to the valve cover, but use no sealant between the gasket and head. Don't over tighten the bolts. They just need to be snug.

    The vacuum advance canister should end up pointing towards the alternator. If it does not, the timing can still be correct, it just means the distributor is in on a different tooth. Again, the timing can still be correct. It becomes a problem if you run out of distributor rotation before you can adjust the timing to where you want it, or, the vacuum hose hits something like the fan for instance. It is important to adjust the total timing to 30-34* (no vacuum advance).
     
    LARRY70GS, Oct 18, 2015
    #81
  2. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    moly based cam lube has a pewter-like color to it.

    I've always found it much easier to preset timing by leaving the dampner at 12* (or whatever) and then line up the distributor to fire.
    You might have to move it a very little bit, but you'll be close enough so you don't have to fart around during break-in.
     
    8ad-f85, Oct 18, 2015
    #82
  3. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member


    If i understand you right, you set your engine to TDC on the number 1 piston, then turn the balancer to the left to line the mark up on 12 degrees, and drop the distributor in with the rotor pointed at the number one piston?
     
    duke350, Oct 20, 2015
    #83
  4. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Well, I don't back them up.
    I leave them at the approximate timing point I intend to use, before reaching TDC, and line up the pole pieces... rather than indiscriminately aiming the distributor.
    It will run well enough to fire immediately and then a fast timing adjustment, after you look over the engine for leaks and troubles.
     
    8ad-f85, Oct 21, 2015
    #84
  5. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member

    I've been working to get the car timed and to idle properly. I reset the distributor and the car starts immediately when hot. I set the idle to 2500 and used my dial back timing light set at 32*, rotated the distributor until the HB mark was at 0 on the timing tab. I then readjusted the idle to ~1000rpm and revel it a couple times. I raised the idle back to 2500, and noted that my mark was still at 0* on the timing tab with the gun set at 32*. When I lowered the idle back to 1000, it seemed to surge a bit, and an intermittent backfire came out the passenger exhaust pipe. What should be my next step in getting this thing running right? I have not driven it to note any performance or lack there of off idle or at cruise. Help Larry! :)
     
    duke350, Oct 22, 2015
    #85
  6. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member


    Remind me what distributor you are using Duke? Are you using light springs in that distributor? Depending on the springs, 2500 RPM may not be enough to max out the mechanical advance.
     
    LARRY70GS, Oct 23, 2015
    #86
  7. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member

    I have the HEI that was on it when I bought this engine. It has an Accel coil on top if that matters. I'm fairly certain that the vacuum canister is not the crane adjustable type, so I doubt the springs are any different than what comes in the Accel HEI. I will look into the actual model number after work today.
     
    duke350, Oct 23, 2015
    #87
  8. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    A stock HEI frequently has a lot of mechanical advance built in to it. You are using the dial back light correctly to set the timing to 32* at 2500 RPM. Here is the problem, when you want to set the total advance as you did, the mechanical advance MUST BE COMPLETELY maxxed out. Just setting the timing at 2500 RPM does not mean that the weights have swung all the way out to their limit. With stock springs, they probably haven't. That means at 2500 RPM, you may have 32*, but it will advance beyond that when you go above 2500 RPM. You will be able to see that with the timing light if you rev it beyond 2500 RPM, the line will go beyond the 0 on the timing tab as the weights swing out further. In addition to that, the stock vacuum canister could have as much as 20* in it, so when you hook that up, you might be at 52* by 2500 RPM, and it will advance beyond that as you go above 2500 RPM. That will make the engine surge and/or ping.

    What you should do is disconnect and plug the vacuum advance for now. Concentrate on setting your total advance to 32* The easiest way to do that is to get some very light springs and install them. Proceed as you did before. Set the dial on the light to 32*. Instead of setting the engine idle to 2500, slowly rev the engine higher and higher by hand as you watch the HB line. It will move up and stop moving up at some point. That is the point you must find, and you must be certain of it to set your total advance reliably. See where the HR line stops moving up. If it stops above the 0 on the timing tab, it means you have to retard the distributor. If it stops below the 0, you need to advance the distributor. When you have it adjusted correctly, the HR mark will move up and stop right at the 0 on the timing tab, and it will move no higher no matter how high you rev it beyond that. Once you have done that, road test the car. Do not even think about connecting the vacuum advance until you get that right. Hope that helps
     
    LARRY70GS, Oct 23, 2015
    #88
  9. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member

    Helps significantly Larry! Thanks for taking the time to educate me. Rain all weekend here in Tennessee and i fly heavy on the schedule at work next week so it looks like I won't get to the road test for a few days. I will post back when I've done as you instructed.
     
    duke350, Oct 23, 2015
    #89
  10. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member

    Got the engine timed properly only to have a valve train tick come up. Pulled the valve covers and took a peak while it was running. #5 exhaust rocker is not functioning right. Either the lifter has failed or the cam has a worn lobe or both. I did the cam break in procedure properly so I don't know what would have caused this failure. The engine is running like crapp and backfiring through the carb. Do lifters fail just like that or is there another issue I'm overlooking? Either way, I'm frustrated to no end. Story of my life with this damn car...
     
    duke350, Oct 31, 2015
    #90
  11. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member


    Take a paint marker and put a line on the #5 exhaust push rod. The push rod should be rotating with the engine running. If the push rod doesn't rotate, the lifter and cam lobe are doomed.
     
    LARRY70GS, Nov 1, 2015
    #91
  12. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member


    I will try that for sure. I did notice that when the engine was running, oil spurted out of the hole on the rocker arm like a jugular had been cut. All of the other rocker arms oiled normally. Indication of a lifter failure? I haven't gotten the intake off to see what it looks like yet.
     
    duke350, Nov 1, 2015
    #92
  13. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member

    i pulled the intake off this morning to find that the plunger on the #5 exhaust valve lifter was not pushing up to the top. i don't know what would have caused this failure. is this common? i took pictures of the lifter (top/bottom) and the cam from the intake galley. please review them and let me know your thoughts. is my cam worn down? how would i know? can this lifter be fixed or do i just replace it and if so replace the one or all? well, i tried to upload photos from my phone and from my computer and the site will not allow me to do it. there is an error message that pops up saying upload failed. either way, how would i know if my cam is bad?
     
    duke350, Nov 7, 2015
    #93
  14. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    While the intake is off you should be able to see while turning the engine over by hand if the lobe is wiped out or not. You would look at that lobe and compare to the other lobes to see if it is basically the same shape as the others, you WILL be able to tell if it is worn down by looking at it. Also by removing that lifter and looking at the bottom and if its not flat and shiny and possibly worn in one spot can reveal that it wasn't spinning in its bore and the cam is shot.

    By what you're describing though is that you got a bad set of lifters like Shawn of the "Rusty Hulk" thread from members rides went through with his lifters. I forgot the brand name of them but they were defective and I guess have been an on going problem with that brand of lifter. That's a long thread to search through but I think that info is in the last 2 or 3 pages back, maybe less? GL



    Derek
     
    300sbb_overkill, Nov 7, 2015
    #94
  15. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    300sbb_overkill, Nov 7, 2015
    #95
  16. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I looked at those pics in his thread. My lifter is collapsed just like that one he showed. Mine didn't come out in pieces. I didn't turn my engine over but the shiny lines on the cam lobes were all uniform. I will check tomorrow. After reading the "rusty hulk" thread, I will definitely swap all of my lifters for sure.
     
    duke350, Nov 7, 2015
    #96
  17. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Make sure the machine shop knows what happened, maybe they will pay for the new lifters? Make sure you don't get the Johnson lifters too or this could happen again? GL



    Derek
     
    300sbb_overkill, Nov 7, 2015
    #97
  18. jzuelly1

    jzuelly1 Jesse Zuelly IV

    Johnson lifters have quality control ossues. Mike at TA swears by Delphi flat tapped lifters. Just an idea of what to buy next if needed.
     
    jzuelly1, Nov 7, 2015
    #98
  19. duke350

    duke350 Well-Known Member

    The thing is, I bought this cam and lifter set from TA performance
     
    duke350, Nov 10, 2015
    #99
  20. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Going to try to post some pics for Duke, he can comment on them;

    20151107_112408.jpg

    20151107_112549.jpg

    20151107_112558.jpg

    20151111_144933.jpg

    20151111_195856.jpg

    2015110795112421.jpg

    2015110795112643.jpg

    I think that's all of them.

    The cam still looks ok, you should make a call to TA, I think that is where I think you wrote you bought them. Anyway let them know what happened and ask them their advise on how to proceed. They may want you to send the cam back to them to re-heat treat it to break-in the second set of lifters(because the surface heat treatment on cast iron is only a couple thousands deep) which IMHO they should replace for you plus all the gaskets to R&R the cam. GL



    Derek
     
    300sbb_overkill, Nov 12, 2015
    #100
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