Start by fixing your own behavior. I've sold about a dozen things here and I am thankful for the opportunity. I'm not sure what happened recently, but I have only had an issue with one of my sales, and it was with you, and it was a long time ago. I support whatever Jim decides to do with his website.
I think the 48 hours may be a bit too long.. In this day of internet on iphones, etc.. I cant imagine not being able to make a decision within 24hrs or less. Sometimes in 48 hours, so many people get inline that the seller can accidently lose track of the order and make someone mad without trying. Just my two cents..
It's not about the site making money. Money is made from advertising on the internet. Charging fees for something is actually the worst thing you can do, it kills your traffic. If I, as the site owner, wanted to make money here, you would be wading thru a sea of advertisements. Quite to the contrary, my company has spent thousands of dollars keeping the site up over the years, when contributions have fallen short of expenses. Last time I totaled it up, it was in excess of 10K, and even now, this year when we are $300 over, I just roll that money over to the next year. The idea of charging to sell here only comes up with the thought that if we are not going to be in control at all of the classifieds, just going to have to deal with the fallout, the person who his benefiting from using this resource should be invested in it. So that means you have to be a major contributor, and i have not counted them up, but I would imagine we have a couple hundred guys who pay 50 or more (sometimes a lot more) just to help out the costs to keep it going. No, Jerry, there would be no "extra fee" to sell. Once your a contributing member, you can sell all you want. It's true that there has been little enforcement of the rules, and that's because we don't have Solomon here to split the baby in half... If your on one side of the issue, it seems black and white, but trust me, it never is from my seat here. Well Rarely, the GS 455 guy selling is car was easy to deal with, but that's really toothless, he's not coming back anyway, unless he has another car to sell. So enforcement of the rules, while it sounds like a great plan, is harder than you might think, and we are going to have a whole lot of folks who are sure they got screwed, if I start handing out suspensions on suspicion of 'breaking rules'. Guys, no one here, not me or the moderators, wants to be involved in your transactions... we don't want your money, and we don't want to referee disputes. So... what... kill the waiting time?... I have heard 3 hours, 24 hours, is two days really too long? The waiting time helps out those who have other responsiblities who can't get back to the computuer, but then again, maybe considering advances in tech in the last 7 years, that has changed. But alot of our members are older, and they don't live and die with their cell phone. I am just about to turn 47 (not that old) and I don't text or read the internet on my smart phone.. Make it the first person who publicly says "Ill take it"? I will tell you right now, all that will happen is a lot of guys will say that, to get the item, and then back out later.. this is going to frustrate the sellers.... so do we have to have some kind of penalty for backing out.. once again, I don't want to end up being the bad guy, because you want to sell a part... That is my real problem with the classifieds, and for that matter, the board in general.. I get painted as greedy, mean, a jerk ect.. when the reality is that if you know me, none of that is true. But have to come down on somebody, and that person, and his friends, are going to think of you as an ass... the reality of the matter has no bearing on their opinion. Been there, done that. JW
NormsGS I sent you a pm I have no idea of what your talking about so please let me know. I don't want issues with anyone if there is or was a misunderstanding or issue lets resolve it. Thanks Herb
It is next to impossible to have a program, selling or otherwise that pleases everyone. Or that everyone can completely understand. In my opinion the buying and selling rules on this site is as close as they can get. For the most part it works just fine, and we all know the old saying " If it works don't fix it ". I'm sure the moderators get tired of the whining and I can understand. Thank You J.W. for all you do for the Buick community. Bob H.
I don't know.......I can see mostly all these views! I was screwed by a "buddy" deal before from somebody here. I never reported it, I figure the mods have better things to do. Somebody who posted above says they are a good seller, and somebody else above told me they weren't! I like the system, I've been able to find good parts for my car. Most of the parts have been as described. I always give or offer more money if a part is free, or too cheap in my opinion. There are people who come on here and scoop parts or request parts and flip them on ebay. How many 1970 fans did that guy buy cheap on here and flip? I can't say. But...they were parts that should have gone to somebody who needed them. They are not members and give zip, not 1 dollar to help run the site. They spend ZERO time trying to help others. Another person I see on here who sells, that's been selling a lot of old repair manuals on here lately (and just happens to be the guy who "buddy screwed" me before) doesn't donate or spend time helping others on the board. I'm thinking...ABSOLUTELY...if you are not a member, then there should be a minimum charge to sell. Look at the guy who parted that whole 70 GS on here before...Eric? Parted the WHOLE CAR in parts on here and gave or helped other members...how? Well I guess by helping peeps get parts, but it wouldn't have hurt him to donate up front (or after). ONLY paid members should sell + have the priveledge to buy.
Newer member, but a long time viewer. Not knowing the rules I too was surprised that you can't just jump in with a pm and buy the item out from under members inline, that's what attracted me to this site. Jumping from other sites and parts venues to this site brings a respect to each member, kinda like the Buick crowd compared to other makes that are not very polite and selfish or friendly for that matter. In my opinion about the only thing that should be addressed is whether a phone # should be in the classified ad, seems it could eliminate some trouble. If you are a potential buyer inline then exchange # in a pm. As stated earlier grow up and show the courtesy to your fellow Buick owner. Theres 2 sides to every deal. Jim I think you have a great site and no matter what you do, will not be able to please everyone.
To be clear and fair to Herb, My issue with Herb was a misunderstanding on a part sale. Him and I were both going through family issues at the time and the sale did not go as smoothly as planned. I don't believe Herb to be a cheat or a scam artist and would do business with him in the future if the occasion arose. Let's all follow the rules and communicate as effectively as possible to minimize the problems here:TU:
It's really too bad it has come to this. We had a great honor system going but it's been abused by a few. As far as a solution, I don't have one. I would hate to see it become a free for all. I will say, one thing that does irk me is when someone is selling a part, and the interested party(s) holds every one hostage over shipping. I see too many people "pass" on an item because they think shipping is too much. I'm not talking about shipping heads/fenders and such, but smaller parts where shipping should not be a deal breaker and the buyer should be able to estimate the charges. If someone expresses interest on an item, they should be prepared to buy it. I've had people 6 deep in line for a part, and they ALL pass when it gets to them. What's up with that? No, I'm not going to take 87 pictures under different lighting of a 10 dollar part. If it's that important, find an NOS one and pay for it. Anyway, sorry that you're getting flak, Jim. You've done a fantastic job with this board and certainly don't deserve it. Maybe this discussion alone will smarten people up. Hopefully!
Rules are meaningless without consequence for breaking them. That said, policing the classified section could be a full time job for several people .. and not a pleasant one at that. ... which leaves us, the members - not moderators - to do the dirty work. 24 hours is long enough to go home and check if the widget is the one you're missing or search the interwebz to see if that BG7000 carb will fit your application. If you want it, buy it .. if it doesn't work out, PM the next in line from the ad or put it back up for sale. "Interested" or "Sold" should be manditory as THE ONLY FIRST WORD(s) in a response to a for sale thread. If the first word isn't "Interested" or "Sold" you are NOT in line or buying the part. Period. The End. If you as a seller receive a PM from someone IN ANY WAY trying to jump the linup .. OUT THEM - COPY/PASTE The PM For all to see .. If we - the membership - Ostracize the crap out of them they will either go away or change their bad behavior. Want more extreme ? Make a sticky with a list - they get a 30 day timeout from the whole classified section. Change thier tage line to BANNED From Classified. Without consequence, the rule breaker/backhand dealer nonsense will continue to grow and I believe that is the root cause of the problem. We've seen the Power of the Pack many times settle a disagreement - its time for us to clean up our own crap. ... and I've been a firm believer since day1 of this board that a very minimal percentage of a sale be gifted to the site from the seller as a thanks for making it possible. Like the contributors list, Jim could keep a list of sellers' running donations. ____________________________________ I have designed and implemented many information systems in my almost 30 years in the computer industry - The logic behind limiting the FIRST WORD response to a for sale thread to "Interested" or "Sold" is to provide immediate and instantly defined direction of flow for all information that follows. You have a question ? ask it after you've established your interest. Need the question answered before you decide you are interested ? ask it first without stating INTERESTED or SOLD but risk loosing your place in line Yes, we may get alot more people stating "interested" just to put a place holder there, but again if we see patterns of people abusing this we can ostracize them for it. ... and for those that need parts - POST A PARTS WANTED thread. Truth be told, I dont sell a lot but when I do its 99% totally behind the scenes answering a Parts Wanted ad as opposed to making a for sale thread. The parts go to those that need it and I dont deal with a plate load of crap Whatever the outcome, Jim has enough to do besides playing babysitter to a constant whine of "they sold it out from under me ..." PM's from a classified section he see's zero retribution from (excluding the decent folks who do sell a lot and have contributed to the site accordingly)
There's always someone who wants to "kill the ump." I think that you have done a great job. Let's not allow a few jerks to screw up something that's great.
I personally don't mind the 'in-line' thing. In certain circumstances it may take a day to get back, it really shouldn't be 48 hours to confirm, but in ceritain situations I could see where that is possible, especially when talking about purchasing a big ticket item. Not all of us have thousands of dollars in disposable income to throw down all at once, but may be able to come up with it on short notice if the right deal comes along. I have been beat out several times on here on hot items cause I haven't been online at the right time, but it is what it is. I have seen the in-line situation work out well for people too, I know it has personally for me. I am new to the game of restoring cars and happened to pick one that has lots of 'one year only' parts. So for me if I see something that I am pretty sure I need, I can get inline like holding it in my hand at the store and confirm with the book or someone more knowledgable to make sure I am getting the right thing before buying. On the flip side if it worked like the guys who say it should be 'first with cash', then I feel in some cases it would be like standing at a swap meet with part in hand and digging your cash out of your pocket then the guy behind you walks up, takes the part out of your hand, thows down some bills on the table and walks off with your part. The guys I have dealt with buying things from on this board have been great. Ask any of them I have bought things from, I may have gotten in line to verify what I was about to purchase was correct or would work for my application, but I figured it out as quickly as possible and when it came down to payment I paid quick and in full every time. Which to me is the way it should be. I am sure there are probably a few that abuse the in-line thing, but for the most part I think it works and is more benficial than it is counter-productive.
I've been on this board from its infancy, and have some experience both buying and selling here. I must be missing something, because it seems to me things run pretty smoothly overall under the current rules. Yes, when something does go wrong the players can get overly emotional, but this is the exception. We have the buyer/seller feedback section to state your case for the world to see. If I see a seller is having too many issues, I avoid dealing with them, no matter how much I might want an item. IMO limiting selling privileges to contributors will drive a lot of activity to other boards, and won't in itself solve any problems. I don't want to see this board sink to the YB level, and prefer imperfect rules to anarchy. John
I agree with Jim about people not following the rules that were in effect for many years. This is the reason I have decided to not put parts up for sale here anymore. I have been going through my accumulation or parts and such of which Dustin and I have gotten for many years. He is out of the Buick thing and I read the posts from the classified sections and refuse to involve myself. I have many,many hard to get,nice shape and needed items,but the way it goes on here,I don't want the hassle..You should have seen the doors,hoods and fenders I have hauled to the scrapper. I have 1 car,I don't need 7 decent fenders,I have 3 GS hoods,I run a glass hood on mine. I have many parts inventoried and ready to sell, but the drama here has negated it.If I were Jim,the classified section would go bye bye..It used to be a great place to find parts other than Ebay but has turned into a circus the last few years!. If he were only to have a parts wanted section,I think it would be better,but I wonder how long till the bickering starts again..
I have had many dealings with Herb(Boston GSX) and have always found him to be a stand up guy who does a minimum of complaining. So if he has a gripe no doubt it is real. Anyone who has been to any Buick event or had personal dealing with him knows he would bend over backwards to help out with anything...................As far as the parts for sale here I have mostly good dealings. The only issue I have is if you want to make a lower offer than what is advertised due it publicly and not with PM's if other people are in line who may be willing to pay full price.
I like the rules as they stand. I've quit looking at classifieds on other forums simply because I was the first with a post and likely with a PM (within a minute of the posting), and still have lost out on an item, when it was mysteriously sold even after a PM exchange or two to sort out shipping costs or payment method. My few classified dealings here have been stellar. I like the 48 hour rule and live with my cell phone. If you cannot wait 48 hours for a part response, you must really be in a world of hurt needing that part. Once posted "in line" it either will or will not get to you. How often does it really matter if it's today or next week? If you can afford it today, you should be able to afford it next week. Sure every once in a while something pops up at the exact moment you need it right then, but that's not every day, and if you know the rules of the forum for 48 hours, you have no reasonable expectation to get the part sooner. As the seller, I know moving inventory fast is the way to go, but same deal, you know the 48 hour rule, so should have the same reasonable expectation when you list it, otherwise don't list it. I agree, what I have seen on the public side seems to be a buyer problem more than a seller problem. Which I guess is what is setting up the feedback loop of selling to a "buddy" or second in line rather than deal with a previously problematic buyer that keeps getting the first place in line. It seems the buyers have little consequence. Wish I had a solid solution to that issue, because as Jim says, too much grey area most times and the moderators shouldn't be playing referees. My two cents as a fan of the board and contributor.
Hi Jim, I agree the For Sale Section is in trouble. Great Site all in all. But there are Way Too Many Squatters in the Section. I'm retired and can check every Half an Hour for things to come up For Sale. But I don't. I have other things to do. But " Interested" or "In Line" shouldn't make them First in line. It puts the seller at a disadvantage. "Interested" is used Way too often to "Get In Line" for something that they have Two Days to mull over if they really want it and the seller has to wait. If you're Interested, Buy It. If a person really needs a part for their car they have to wait to see if the Hoarders or "Maybe I Want it" people to get out of the way. "I'll take it" should have preference over the Muller's. And all the things that go on in the PMs between people should be banned. Which they are but happen anyway. It should be used for finalizing the sale. There are way too many people who "Reserve" their place on a part then say Next in line can have it. You never know if this person really wants it so you just pass it by because there are too many People In Line. I also think a $50 contribution is a good idea. There are too many Buyers and sellers who are on here because that's what they do, and make a lot of money doing so. Jump on a rare part that someone really needs to get his car running. Then hold onto it for how many Years to watch the Value go up. That's just wrong to me. But it's your Right. Buick parts are getting more scarce every day. We need parts to keep our cars running and turn here to see what's for sale. Too many people are "Interested", wait Two days then Naa, I don't want it, I was just kidding. It's up to US to make things Right. Whiners not allowed. Just Buying and selling Honestly. If you'll never use it sell it. If you really need it, Buy it. I'm glad You brought this up Jim. We don't need a Wild West section. Thank You. PONCH
Jim, I think most of the time the system in place works very well but I also think it depends on the type of member that you are deal with. I see this as a pretty easy fix. I my eyes we already have two classified sections here and between the these this should cover the what I consider the 2 types of sellers we have. Please read the whole post, I know its a bit long but it real does cover the needs for everyone here. 1)If you want to sell in the "cars" or parts" for sale section the seller has to follow the rules in place with maybe a couple small changes or clarity, on things like: 48 hrs needs to apply to the buyer and seller. I read it as it does apply to both already but in the thread below others don't think so. I do not think a seller should take as long as he wants to complete the sale. Why post something for sale that is in storage etc, be ready to take more pics as needed. Or don't post stuff for sale if your are too busy to tend to the add. Lets look at this add from the past week, it is great example of a for sale add that doesn't belong in the V8buick classifieds. Here is the link. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?275710-1970-Buick-GS-455-s-matching Here is the heading: Suspension rebuilt, new brakes and fuel lines. Everything fresh. No leaks, doesn't burn oil. All original interior, everything works. I've owned the car for 7 years. Has original spare. All date codes are correct, starter, carburetor, alternator, voltage regulator. Engine and transmission have been resealed. Original 14 inch super sport wheels, with original center caps and rings. 16 inch thumb groove sport wheel, dark saddle interior. Includes Wayne Roberts report. Low option, no air. All original sheet metal. The steering wheel in the picture has been replaced. Also have other NOS parts for sale. Call Mike for more pictures or details, I'm not on v8buick very often. 616-893-9717 $15,000 Grand Rapids, Right off the bat the red flags are huge and this add should have been deleted right away. I quote the add "Also have other NOS parts for sale. Call Mike for more pictures or details, I'm not on v8buick very often. 616-893-9717 $15,000 Grand Rapids. First red flag is: "Call Mike for more pictures or details, I'm not on v8buick very often. 616-893-9717" This add should have been deleted no if ands or buts. Second red flag:Also have other NOS parts for sale. These parts were not listed for sale anywhere on V8buick so let the auction begin! Here is a post in reaction to my post when I questioned what is taking so long to complete a sale that I was interested in in the same thread. "HUH??? The 48 hour suggestion is the time frame the seller should give the potential buyer to contact him after placing himself "in line". It is not the time frame to complete a deal. There are no time frames placed on the SELLER! It is his ad, his car for sale, he can take as long as he wants to sell it. If people don't want to to wait for the SELLER, they should get out of line. RULES: We suggest 48 hours as an acceptable time period to allow interested parties (BUYER) to contact you (SELLER) privately. 4.If the first user who responds to your ad does not complete the sale, you move onto the second person who responded, and so on and so forth down the list, until the item is sold. This list is dictated soley by the public replies to your ad."................. As a potential buyer am I not within the rules to ask what is taking so long after 7 days of no action??? Next thing is the 48 hour rule that should and I believe it already does apply to both seller and buyer needs to be enforced, but as you can see in the post above others do not agree. For some this 48 rule doesn't work for them because it makes it a lot harder that person to middle/quick flip on said car or part. What happen to deleting a post where the poster above is not involved in the sale? Now, for the guy that wants his cake and eat to, we have a section here called "LEADS" If you can't follow the rules in the V8buick cars or part for sale section post your car or parts for sale else where IE: Kijiji, racing junk, ebay, hemmings, etc etc Then and only when the add is post else where you can post the link in the leads section where there will be know deal making, back dooring fellow board members etc. Link is posted and nothing else. In closing, The rules already in place work for most of the board members here so why do anything other then offer some clarity on the rules and enforce them PERIOD! For anyone that can't follow the rules in place don't try to buck the system and screw it up for the people that can follow the rules and work together. Place your add else where and post your link in the leads section. It is VERY simple, this will work and clover the needs for ALL V8buick members and should also help free up some of the Mods time wasted with people that can't follow the rules. It really is are responsibility as members to follow the rules and police are self NOT the Mods, I don't know about you guys but I am 46 and don't need someone to baby sit me......
