I don't really know much about the racing side of this topic except it is and continues to be very entertaining. Looks like PPPJJJFFF has both of the cars we need for a true stock versus stock race! (1970 Buick GSX, Stage 1, White, #607 -1970 Hemi-Challenger, Factory T/A Hood)
race Dave D, as you probably know, we are in the infancy stage of putting together a "Virgin Stock" Hemi vs Stage 1 race vs other brands vs the new cars like the Hemi Charger, Z06 etc at the Buick Horsepower Nationals this coming June at Indy. Maybe we could include this race as part of the program if it comes together in time. Event is June 28 - July1. (www.buickhorsepower.com ) I know that Hemmings Muscle Machines is very interested in covering this and Horsepower TV is planning on attending too, along with 3 or 4 other media thus far. Wouldn't it be cool to see these race on HP TV? :beer John Chamberlain
Let me give Dave Kleiner a call and see if he can yank the Buick off the rotisserie. I'm sure he'll have no problem with that! :rant: Patrick
I think if you guy`s are gonna get a hemi and stage1 to race in stock tune. You should make sure he`s a hemi guy who know`s how to tune the car. Bob K has a Hemi Cuda that can certify stock and he has run 11`s on the stock tires. The 66 Plymouth that certified stock ran 12.0`s. I hear there`s a 67 car that will probably run in the 11.80 range comming this year. Really the only way to be sure both cars are stock is to certify them. Anything less will be taken with a grain of salt. I can see it right now "Hemi only runs 12.80`s" mean while the Mopar camp has maybe? 3 certified stock hemi`s running in the 11`s. Something to think about.... Who ever ends up stepping up for the F.A.S.T. Hot Rod shoot-out will need until Sept to get a strong running combo tested and togeather, I`m guessing? Here`s where my car is right now, I`m gonna need a tad bit of time also:
Naahh, just tell him to have it done and "factory" performance prepped by June 28. Which one would you prefer to see (or think would) win? What would be cool is if you could take both of your cars, race them as-is (assuming they would both certify stock), certify them on disassembly, and then as Dave D just mentioned, let the best of both the Buick and Hemi camps have them for say, one weekend, or a week, or whatever to tune. Certify them on reassembly(if necessary) and then run them again. :Brow:
I`ll go on record right now and let you guy`s know I can contact these Hemi guy`s on the stock side. If the cars don`t certify stock there`s gonna be BS involved, for sure..... I think the stock shoot-out will be a great idea.
We already contacted Bob L for the shoot-out. A great guy and Bob was instrested but he decided to bow out.
Indy! Dave, what we are putting together is a race called Virgin Stock, not Pure Stock. I have run 12:40s in Pure Stock trim with both of my Stage 1 cars that I used to race, which allows some NHRA mods and this is not what we are looking for. Mark Weymouth has volunteered his 70 Hemi Challenger which has never had the engine apart other than some gasket changing. Likewise, I volunteered my brown 70 Stage 1 in which I re-installed the original engine that is also untouched with original pistons, stock bore, untouched heads, etc. Original springs and shocks, etc. I expect it will run in the 13s somewhere but I haven't raced it like this since the mid 80s. Still, I think both will represent both camps well. I think there will be huge interest in seeing what these cars will run in this configuration and then follow it up with a Hemi vs Stage 2 race. So, get going on your car -- the rest of us are waiting! :3gears: JKC
There's a reason I own both a Hemi-Challenger and a Buick GSX Stage 1. I love both cars. One is not better than the other as far as I'm concerned. Both are torques monsters and fun to drive. The Chrysler has a little more shake, rattle and roll. But that's O.K. Seeing a factory Hemi under the hood makes the hair stand on the back of my neck! For years I thought I wanted a 454 LS6 Chevelle. Until I found out about the GSX. I passed on the Chevy going for the rarer and racier GSX. After driving them both, I would give the nood to the Hemi-Challenger. And that's because of the 4.10"s. If the rears were the same, with better drivers than me (which isn't hard to find, I'm sure) who knows who would win. Really doesn't matter much. Neither are blue-printed or built better than factory. They both go down in my book as 2 of the greatest! Definately debatable I know. But not by me! I would prefer to see a tie. :TU: Patrick
That's kind of how I like it. If there was no contest, there wouldn't be the big rivalry we have today. On any given day, one might beat the other. I slightly prefer the Buick because I like sleepers. Not that I would be ashamed to own a hemi car.
We are light years from those innocent days that spawned this rivalry and you can't go back and re-write the facts: As factory equipped...The Stage 1 Buick can compete and win against the Hemi. Nuf Said! Nowadays the majority of competitive cars raced in "Fast" are purpose built... these cars are very sophisticated and worlds away from stock. The newly proposed Buick/Hemi match race can only hope to prove that on race gas and race tires the HEMI has the advantage over the Buick...and thats old news, right? So whats the point? Why not pay homage to the original series and use (2) fairly stock carsjust like the good old days? (More room for lying and cheetin) Better yet why not make it bigger and invite the whole crowd. Love those Musclecars! Good luck to HOT ROD and the Mopar camp finding a sucker. (Sacrificial lamb for the Hemi Faithful)
I agree with the stock race. Just like you would have bought one off the showroom floor back in the day. None of the get over the dealer counter part crap. Polyglas tires, both 4-speeds (or auto)not one of each, best of 3 (or 5) runs. That's what the decades long debate is all about, did Buick's best match up as well to the better known hemi.
the Hemi vs GS debate will never be decided by just one representative from each camp. Please tell Hot-Rod that this will require a total of 20-30 cars ranging from cert stock up to FAST. Anything less would only be a money contest. If all their interested in is a "How fast are FAST cars on slicks" story, then why invite Buick to the contest? Why not the legendary LS6 cars that command more street respect and money on par with the hemi cars?????
Buick Stage-2 vs Hemi..... Why not let the Hemi run any "over-the-counter" factory parts too.... The Baddest vs The Baddest.... If the Buick loses, it loses; life goes on.....
Factory against factory! Virgin stock (Both well tuned cars), Certified stock ( The way they should have left the factory) and F.A.S.T. (Straight-up, no-slicks). That seems fair to me. 10 - 15 cars from each camp. :3gears:
