What Plugs for SE Stage 2 Heads?

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by wormwood, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    alright i have some flow numbers. they are printed to me in incriments of .050 lift, i listed the ones i thought were most revealing, let me know if you need other info. i also have avg cfm

    cylinder 1 intake @ .400 195.8
    @ .450 214.0
    @ .500 231.8
    @ .700 267.3 (HIGEST CFM)

    exhaust @ .400 154.0
    @ .450 164.9
    @ .500 174.3
    @ .650 259.9 (highest cfm)
    @ .700 193.2

    cylinder 2 intake @ .400 200.3
    @ .450 220.5
    @ .500 236.0
    @ .700 254.1

    exhaust @ .400 165.2
    @ .450 175.4
    @ .500 180.2
    @ .700 197.9
  2. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Is that at 28" of water
  3. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    im not sure what that means, but i dont know. im looking on my print out. i dont see naything about water. i see something about 5/8 clay used on int. (whatever that means)
  4. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    The standard is at 28" of water, but some flow #'s are at 10" of water. It should say on the sheet or you can call and ask. If those are at 28" of water, they should flow better than that. My Gessler Stage1SE heads flow 313/225 @.550 lift.

  5. whamo

    whamo 454 71 skylark custom

    I just checked my flow sheet. My stg2te's flow 328/229 @ .550" and 310/222 @ .500". Those numbers seem a little suspect to me.
  6. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    oh, i just stumbled upon the # you were asking for larry. its 25". im going to try to scan and post my printout sheet.

    Attached Files:

  7. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    Decent numbers for iron heads.......Even for 25", that is pretty weak.... I couldn't let myself bolt those back on like that.
  8. K0K0

    K0K0 Jamie

    Looks 2 me like they where tested on 4.250 bore i dont know how or if that would make a differance but i think so.
  9. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    yea, guys please, all the info on this would be apreaciated, i dont want to put these heads on if they are going to flow like crap.
  10. whamo

    whamo 454 71 skylark custom

    Dan, You ran 11's with these heads didn't you? I cant believe that your port match job would screw up your flow. I believe those heads, out of the box, flow better than the numbers that Tom's Performance came up with. I think the test standards they used are giving you a apples to oranges comparison.

    I flew in last night and I have some "honey do's" to get caught up on. Once I get those done, we can degree your cam. I'll give you a call later today.
  11. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    so, did i just spend $150 on a flow test and 3 days of work and all this money on gaskets to get worthless information? :Do No: this is getting to be rediculious.
  12. stage2man

    stage2man Well-Known Member

    These numbers are wakko! If you notice the flow doesn't crash at .600 lift. This means they where flowed at very low velocity. With the out of the box port the air stream can't make the short turn which always shows up after .550 lift. The curve is suspiciously flat.

    Typical TA heads will flow right around 200-205cfm @ .300 lift. It would be hard for you to have hurt this area unless you hogged the bowls to the point of water.

    Correcting the numbers given for 28" diff. pressure.

    corr. factor = sqrt(28/projected pressure)

    back calculating I come up with around 16.2". I think this is pretty close when spot checking several points.

    correction factor = sqrt(28/16.2) which is 1.315.

    now your I would say your .300 numbers are closer to 199.8-205.8cfm
    and your .500 numbers 304.7-310cfm (which may show more disruption @28)

    exhaust are typical stage2 number corrected to:

    .300 - 165/179
    .500 - 233
    .600 - 246cfm

    Your problem has nothing to do with your head flow!
  13. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    i have no idea what he just wrote, but it looks good, and i hope you're right. regardless, i packed up the heads today and sent them off to gregg gessler. $140 in shipping and a few more to have him give me the bottom line will hopefully be worth it.
  14. stage2man

    stage2man Well-Known Member

    What I was saying in a nut shell is your heads could not have been flow'd at 25" of water. More like 16. This number is the difference in pressure which is maintained by the flow bench operator.

    You can correct the flow numbers if you know what this pressure was. I took a stab at correcting your flow sheet.

    Just take a CFM value from your flow sheet and multiply by 1.315 to get the more standardized value.

    I think if Greg reflows the heads on his superflow 600 your numbers will be typical published flow rates.

    We all get hung up on these absolute flow numbers. In reality they should be used to gauge flow improvements during head work.
  15. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    well, steve (whamo) can over today, we tried to degree the cam in, but we couldn't due to the fact that half the lobes are practically gone. new "gibson" cam ordered and on the way.
  16. gymracer01

    gymracer01 Well-Known Member

    Now I think you are at the problem finally. I been watching this for a while and didn't think the flow #s were your problem unless the heads were totally screwed up. I ran 10.70s with untouched Stage 1 iron heads and I couldn't believe a Stage 2 would not run better than that.
    Jim N.
  17. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    well, for those of you who care enough to read this..

    I got my heads back from gregg gessler last week, my motor is all back together, cam is degreed in (thanks to steve frisby [whammo]) i only managed to strip out 3 bolt holes. here are the flow #'s that gregg came up with.

    i managed to run an 11.9 with these heads before, but that was with a working cam. so hopefully now with a little bigger cam and better flowing heads i'll see mid 11's.

    SO whats the best way to break in the cam? keep in mind i dont need to seat the pistons and rings because they weren't touched, i just need to break in the cam. ALSO i used 15-40 rotella oil WITH comp cams break-in oil additive.

    Attached Files:

  18. 70aqua_custom

    70aqua_custom Well-Known Member

    Dan, Your cam manufacturer should have given you instructions on this but generally they're the same. Apply cam lube to lobes and lifers upon installation. Add break-in additive to the oil. High lift cams get broken in on the outer springs only. Prime oil system and fuel system. Have everything ready to run the engine for 15-20 min non stop. You want to keep the cranking to a minimum. I have a fan blowing fresh air into the radiator and a garden hose ready with cool water to top off the radiator and also to cool the radiator should the temp get too warm. I install a timing light and have the distributor hold down bolt adjusted so that the dist won't move on its own but loose enough that you can turn it by hand. I have a helper fire the motor and watch the gauges while I observe the engine. You want to run it for 15-20 min @ 2400-2700 RPM varying it some from time to time. If something doesn't sound right or the oil pressure or temp goes above or below where you want it, shut it down immediately. There must be no idling until break-in is complete.

    After that, you install the inner springs, readjust the valves, change the oil then :3gears:
  19. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    well, went to fire it up last night. I got it to where it would start for a second or two then it would die. i did this for about 20 minutes, and didnt want to keep going on cause i know that it's bad to crank a dry motor. anyone have any ideas why it would be doing this? the timing is right on, or close to it, the plug wires are in the correct order, the plugs are gaped @ .50, the float bowls are set on the carb. so.......:Do No:
  20. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different


    with the help of whammo i got the motor going today. it sounds great! i ran it for 20 minutes and the temp guage stayed at 182 degrees, which never happened before, it always used to overheat when standing still (although that could be due to the fact that the old thermostat was corroded).

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