What Plugs for SE Stage 2 Heads?

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by wormwood, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    nate, im sure i dont have the wire crossed, i check them all the time. im also only using a electric pump, no mechanical pump, and my guage says im getting 6 psi to the carb. ill check the mufflers to see if it feels like the pressure is even.

    steve, when i did the upgrades i took the whole engine apart except for the pistons and crank. i doubt that the balancer sliped, its a brand new sfi certified and all that crap ta one. as far as mufflers go, im running through a pair of dynomax 3 " in 3" out. the ignition system is a msd 6a box, with a msd mechical advance billet distrubitor and a external coil.

    it sounds like my next plan of attack is to check the cam to see if it is going flat. this sounds like the most logical plan.
     
  2. whamo

    whamo 454 71 skylark custom

    I agree about the camshaft Dan, how many 13 second runs did you make? When you ran them did the car seem to laydown at a certain point or did it feel low on power overall? Was it slow to rev? You really have me really scratching my head now ..... like I said if there is anything I can help you with let me know. Im just down the road and I'd love to see your car.
     
  3. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member


    Steve, Go down there and eyeball this situation for us:TU: I'm really curious about this.
     
  4. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    Steve, i ran probably 5-6 13 second runs. the car feels great, i remember thinking to myself "but this was definitly a mid 11 run" only to discover it was a 13.4. I am currently in NY attending my grandfathers funeral, but i will be home tuesday. if you think you can make it to my house i will pm you my cell #. If you kknow how to dial in a cam, maybe i will pickup a new cam and have the engine torn apart by the time you get there. If you think that that is my problem.
     
  5. whamo

    whamo 454 71 skylark custom

    Ill give you a ring on tuesday.
     
  6. K0K0

    K0K0 Jamie

    Any update?
     
  7. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    yes actually, yesterday i pulled off the valve covers, had my wife crank the motor while i watched the rockers go up and down. They all seem to travel the same distance (about a half inch). but of course that is just eye-balling them. i rechecked the vacuum at operating temperature it is 11 inches at idle dropping to 9 in drive. i also took it out for a drive the other day, when i start it up when it is cold it backfires through the exhaust, then after it warms up, the backfiring goes away.
     
  8. 70aqua_custom

    70aqua_custom Well-Known Member

    I think if it was bad enough to see by eyeballing the rockers it would run a lot worse than it 13s. Did you see metal in the oil? Pull the stick and hold it under a light or in the sun. If it looks like graphite (gray) worry. If it looks like oil stop worrying about the cam. Does the popping happen when you step on the gas to accelerate, or a certain RPM, all RPMs, or when you back off the gas?

    I hate to complicate things with more theories but I want to help you get this thing fixed. I'm wondering if the basics were covered. Has the valve adjustment been checked? We have not talked about ignition other than you have to run a lot of timing. Have you pulled and inspected all the plugs? What are you running for an ignition system and is it right?
     
  9. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    the backfiring only seems to be when it is cold, like on start-up. but i think that has to do with the new carb, it didnt do that with the 850 holley. i really need to find someone that can tune a carburator. I adjusted the rockers about a year ago, i did this by getting each piston to TDC, tightening the adjuster nut hand tight, then putting about a 1/4 turn into it with a allen key. I have pulled out each plug, they all looked like they were running lean. then i checked the gap and realized that they were gapped at .30, so i opened them up to .50. i know that this dosent seem right because the motor was running a little lean, but having a .30 gap can't be right, not with a MSD 6A, MSD distributor and external coil.


     
  10. BUICKRAT

    BUICKRAT Torque Rules!

    Stupid, I know, but could the dist. be off a tooth? or the cam gear off a tooth? I've seen similar weird issues when this happens, and it accounts for the need for alot of timing. We had one with a multi-position crank gear, but the guy had used the wrong mark to line up with on the crank gear. The engine ran ok, needed lots of timing, and backfired through the exhaust. Another had the dist off a tooth, backfired when cold, ran good warm. Guy had the distributor cranked enough to almost make up for the difference.
     
  11. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    i think at this point, i am willing to believe anything, although past threads have tackled the issue of being "off a tooth" and i dont think that it would matter and/or there is no such thing?

    also, i checked the oil, it seems fine, its black, not grey and i dont see and metal shavings/filings. :TU:
     
  12. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    I know I said it before, but did you check all your valve springs seat pressures???? You may just be floating the valves with the "bigger" cam you say you are running...... what is the open spring pressure? How far from coil bind?
     
  13. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    The cam gear can be off a tooth, but not the distributor. Timing is timing. The difference would be where the distributor vacuum advance ends up when you set the timing to where you want it. With the distributor in one way, the vacuum advance might point at the radiator. Move it one tooth and set the timing the same, the vacuum advance would point in another direction, but the timing is still the same. You know you are a tooth off, if you try to set the timing and find that you run out of distributor travel before you can set the timing to what you want. Does that make sense?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2008
  14. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Wasn't Whamo supposed to look at your car?
     
  15. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    yea but whamo is away on business, hopefully when he gets back he will have some time.

    i have a MSD mechanical advance distributor.

    BUICK4SPEED I THINK YOU GOT IT!!! I did some research and found that i still am using the old valve springs from the Lunati cam (a much smaller cam). they are TA part # TA 1107 (O.D 1.360 / 100 lbs @ 1.9 / 250 lbs @ 1.4 and a coil bind of 1.06). santos over at TA says i should be using TA part # TA1125 springs (O.D 1.385 / 125 lbs @ 1.9 / 320 lbs @ 1.4 and a coil bind of 1.14). what do you guys think? im prety excited about this find...... could this be the elusive problem i have? could i have been floating the valves? are the TA1125 valves the ones i should be using or are there other ones? remember i am using the TA "Gibson" cam (110 version). Please let me know what you guys think!!!
     
  16. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member




    OK, than he hasn't looked at it. Sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can spot something you are missing.


    So you have no vacuum advance. Doesn't matter. Can you set the timing from 0 to whatever you need to to make it run? If the answer is yes, than the distributor is in correctly.

    Something else I just thought of. Take the distributor cap off and inspect the center contact inside. I've seen plenty of contacts worn down to the point where it creates all sorts of symptoms up to a no start condition. It's worth a look.
     
  17. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Sure, that could be it. Valve springs must be compatible with the cam. Although that would not explain why it needs so much timing to run.
     
  18. whamo

    whamo 454 71 skylark custom

    Im away right now for the next 3 weeks. You said the plugs look lean. A lean mixture requires more advance. Maybe its just way to lean for some reason.
     
  19. wormwood

    wormwood Dare to be different

    how can i tell if these are the right springs for the cam im running and TA isn't just trying to sell me a set of springs? inother words, i need a second opinion...
     
  20. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member


    I can't imagine why you would doubt what TA has told you. I'm surprised that they didn't ask about your springs when you bought the cam to switch over. If you want a second opinion, call and ask to speak with Mike.
     

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