heh heh heh heh... Oh the times they are a changing...had some folks think I was crazy to get 6 (count em 6) 350s from Mike G a while back...I mean who wants those old 350s, anyways? Heck, about the only better boat anchor was the 403 olds, ok well the 307 olds. Ok, well the 260 olds. Like I was saying, I buy these boat anchors (I think I have 9 or 10 of them now)...suddenly...the Little Buick That Could comes along. Here's my thought... BBB vs LBTC...always heard the 'Might as well build a BBB, they cost aobut the same, and besides, there is an aftermarket' argument. welllll...consider the cost the next time you need a new front cover for your BBB...need one for the 350? Just find a V6!
GBF, I've always wanted to stockpile BBB and SBB engines myself. I don't think you're sick. The more the merrier. At least that way they have the company of their own kind and somebody to feed and take care of them. :laugh:
I think we got a motor we can drop-in a g-body without alot of trouble, go fast and turn the corners. Opens up a better avenue than the bbb.
As far as this engine goes right now, It is extremely streeable. It has a decent idle, you know there is a cam in it, great reponse and plenty of low end grunt for street driving, remember, it's making 400 ft/lbs of torque all the way down at 3000 rpm. The next step, the roller rockers will not change any of that much, but I expect to pick up a littel horsepower on top, maybe 10 or 15. The other cam will probably change some things somewhat, but it still won't turn it into some crazy unstreetable monster. The killer looking intake we are going to try, well, we'll just have to wait and see on that one. The one thing that is really different on a Buick vs. chevy is still port velocities whhich are typically better on the Buicks so they still tend to keep really good torque numbers down low so driveability is vastly improved. Seems lots of Buick guys want to have their engines idle almost dead smooth at 600 rpm, I'm not one of those guys, I want my Buick to idle with ATTITUDE! This engine going in front of a stick shift will be just fine, the other way this thing would be awesome would be in front of a s-p 400 set-up.Jim Burek
Jim - would you happen to have the HP/TQ graphs available to post here on the forums? Another issue with the 350 is the terrible oil pan. Do you plan to make, or know anybody who is developing a better oil pan for the 350? I would like to use my car for some road race and auto-x style events and that would be a disaster waiting to happen with the stock pan. What kind of rod/main clearances did you use on this motor? What kind of oil pressure readings are you getting from idle to max rpm? Are the 350's as picky about clearances/oil pressure as the big blocks?
Scott, I'll post some of the graphs later, there has been alot of data collected on this engine and it wil take me some time to go through and post some of this stuff. I have some pretty interesting data on the manifold tests too tha t I will be posting. Hmmm, maybe I should put all this info in a book, wonder if it would sell. This engien has a larger sump pan, we just do them here, I don't have a source for 350 oil pans, we could do a road race type pan as well. This engine runs 35 psi at hot idle, abut 850 to 900 rpm, and instanly goes to 55 psi off idle, it holds right at 65 at 6000 rpm. We have .0025 0n the mains and .002 on the rods. I run 20w 50 oil. The 350's don't need quite as much oil pressure as the 455, but they still do need more than a 350 chevy. We are using a stock pump with a booste plate. Jim Burek
While on the topic of oil pans, is it possible to make a pan that can control the oil, have enough room to keep it off the crank, and not extend below the front x-member? Oh yeah, and a book sounds like a great idea, it can keep us "dreamers" occupied until the good parts get to market (or get enough $ to buy said parts!) heheheheh
Rob and Jim, Thanks for the time and effort to bring this information to us! Maybe this will spur a few more guys into building the SBB. Mike:beer
Jim and others, Great work on your 350. I'll have to keep this information handy should we look into building a Super Stock engine for our Apollo. With NHRA cutting out Stock eliminator at various events, we're considering just that! That intake of Rob's looks great! If that doesn't fit into your plans, I'm interested in it. That would be an easy change over to pick up a few horses in order to run SS. Our NHRA Stock Eliminator 350 Buick makes 390 horse with dished pistons and stock lift cam and no porting or polishing allowed. Wanna build an SS engine together????? Or perhaps put that one in our car? With that much horse, it should be well into the 10's! Keep it rock'n! SBB's RULE!!
Thanks guys:TU: I'm glad I decided to keep going at this project, because with Wiseco taking 6 months to make the pistons I was ready to look at other alternatives. When Jim and I started this about a year ago we thought the most that would come out of this was a mid-400 horsepower reading from this engine. I guess we've been underestimating the power this engine can really make for alot of years now. I'm really interested in seeing what power this engine makes with the roller rockers, custom grind cam, and the single plane intake Lon is loaning us. With seeing the engine run over the 500 hp mark and knowing there is more power still inside, I had no choice, but to find out what this thing can really do. I feel we're breaking new ground and seeing the new potential this engine has. I could understand if this was an all out race motor, but just imagine how much money I'll save and how much fun I'll have by not having to buy a trailer, running 11's at the track, and being able to drive it home :grin: This engine really surpasses my expectations as we're not even done yet. Maybe now's the time someone should step up and manufacture forged rods and a single plane intake for the 350?:Smarty: :3gears:
....and Pop Can heads......and Dare I say ?? BLOWER !!! That'll bring it to 600-700HP easily :beer Just spied a '70 350 in the local weekly trader for $150 Hmmmmm.......
I'm a new guy to this board.500 hp@5600rpm is a real sweet engine! It looks like the lowly 350 will finally get the respect it deserves!:grin: <p>Regarding getting one in Super Stock,I have a new Competition Cams round lobe roller cam,that is sitting unused.
Is that the roller cam that was on ebay? I believe it was a .701 lift, but it could be cut down. I should've bid on that.
hi Rob, Yep,it was.It is a big cam.The lift is .704" 304/308 dur. @.020,276/280@.050",104 lobe centers.<p>I called Comp Cams,for some info on it,and got the following: Approximate power range is 5000-8500 rpm.<p>It needs the following to "work" well.<p>12:1 C.R. or more,5000 stall converter,4.88 gears.It will also require a custom single plane intake manifold,and connecting rods capable of 9000rpm.<p>The Comp Cams tech guy,that I spoke to said it was cut from a block of billet steel,and that the racer net cost is around $760!!<p>I didn't think my bid would hold,considering I placed it about 5 days before the auction ended.
Rob, I just found this thread since I was out of town for the past 10 days. I just have to say HOLY CRAP!!! 502 HP and you guys still aren't done!!! As I told you a while back my next project will be small block powered, now seeing that you are making big block power with a 350 has me in cold sweats LMAO.
I'm glad you're back Mike So, everything turnout good? I can't believe this engine is making that much power too, it was truely unexpected. The cool thing is the 502 hp is through the mufflers. After seeing the power I've decided to see how far of a street motor we can build. I told Jim to go with the roller rockers and solid lift cam that'll be custom ground for the engine. Plus, the motor will receive large tube headers and we'll be borrowing a custom made single plane intake that's being sent down for us to tryout. With the new cam, roller rockers, and large tube headers I think the engine will be able to get up to the 530-540 horsepower level. Depending on how much horsepower the single plane intake makes over the TA intake, I might have to look into that down the road. I'm thinking of getting in contact with a cnc machine shop and seeing about getting adapter plates manufactured for the use of a single plane.
502 hp??? 350 ci???? wow.. i was avoiding this thread for some reason. maybe cause I was going to be building up a mild 455 soon. I'd really like to know streetability of this 350. (streetability is all in the eye of the beholder) how was it at 450 hp? what would be a good auto trans setup for this 350 and for drivability for my convertible. and can we be seeing some cost numbers at these various HP levels? guess i wont be getting rid of my 70 buick 350 out of my skylark. (why get rid of the one with better heads?) how much head work was done? I'd love to see some in depth details of this build-up. think about the honda guys when you actually make more HP per Liter than they do and your engine is 34 yrs old. the 350 in the regal is also a really good idea. hmm.... cant wait to read about this. nate
I could SWEAR I'v seen that intake manifold somewhere before :Brow: Soooo- Your all finally coming around to the potential of the SBB,,, Something I'v known about for years! Jim- The rods WILL be the limiting factor, and will fail somewhere around 575-600 HP in the 6500 RPM range..... WATCH OUT!!! I'm assuming your running "late" style cap screw rods in this engine? Side beams polished? Balancing pads "shaved" to reduce weight??? Mine were completely polished on all surfaces, sonic treated, and hard chromed... and 600 HP was "THE LIMIT"! Tho I was running heavier 10:1 "street" slugs and nitrous. With the "light weights" your using, you may have bought a little insurance. Funny thing is, I started cutting metal last week for a new intake manifold for my dual turbo SBB project. I'm modeling it after an old Chrysler cross ram style intake.... Each turbo perched prominently over each valve cover, and long straight runners into the heads. Also, I'm using steel for the intake, actually exhaust tubing for the runners, and I'll be "encasing" the runners inside a secondary plenum so that I can inject compressed carbon dioxide gas into the secondary plenum to cool the incoming air charge The exhaust headers came out really nice. They look like "block huggers" turned up-side-down Sometime this summer or fall, I will be in the market for a set of your steel rods, as I'm expecting 700+ HP from my combo- To that end, I find this thread to be great news as were finally building some real interest in the SBB. there's a good chance we can all work together to get a volume discount on these, and other, expensive and hard to come by items. I'm also excited about the idea of you heading up a SBB movement, as I'v always found you to be pleasant, professional, and above all, competent in your engine building abilities. I would like to ask a favor of you, could you please shoot me a PM and give me a price on a set of bolt on heads ported and worked to the level of this one? Just think guys- In the next couple of years, we could have an honest to goodness Hemi -vs- SBB shoot-out. :eek2: That will once and for all settle the question of who has the "King of the Muscle cars" title........ But WE already know the answer to that question:Smarty: :3gears:
