Please note the 5.7 LS1 and LS6 engines from GM, 350 and 405HP...the truck engines are not built for HP. later tim
If the car companies were NOT able to build cars now that could out perform those of our fun nostalgic era, then I would have to say, "What the @$#% have they been doing all these years?!" OF COURSE they should be able to! I think that's terrific. Call it just plain old if you want to, but I will continue to hang on to my RWD fullsize 100% Buick; not because it's necessarily better in certain categories - I like it! I'll still add because (maybe it's only in MY opinion) that it's far more attractive than anything built today. You're welcome to outperform me in any area with some new techno rocket and I really don't care. Besides, your modern $40,000+ supercharged performance machine will be sitting right next to me in traffic just the same. Today's cars will have a great life and then go to the crusher (or plastic recycler). The ones worth keeping from "yesteryear" will be kept.
Re: Re: Re: I agree with this guy...... Artie, I don't know what a leftover 03 Corvette is going for, but I can not imagine it is any where near the 03 Cobras. Cobras are going as low as $26,000 with rebates. I know since I have been looking and test driving. If you have a family like I do, you can fit a few children comfortably in the back on the way to the grocery store, and not have to leave anyone behind. I don't think you have to worry as much about depreciation when you only pay the price of a family sedan. The Cobra may be slower at the dragstrip as the IRS tends to hop on the sticky surface, but I would not bet on roll from 20 mph in the real world. Because you have run one braggart that has no clue concerning combination, does not mean you can jump to any conclusions. The Cobra also weighs more than your car at 3665 lbs. without a driver vs. yours at 3300 lbs with driver. Look around here at the dyno sheets, combinations and signatures. They can not all be liars, and many are running low 11s at 120+ with about $1500 of bolt ons. The 03 cobras are rated at 390 hp while the 04s are rated at 410 hp. There were no mechanical changes to the drive train other then the driveshaft betwen the two years. It would seem Ford has a handle on the underrating game as well. I also don't understand how a iron block with a forged steel crank, Manley H-beam rods, ARP fasteners, and forged pistons could be considered a "weak bottom end." The only consistent failures concerning the bottom end have been related to chip combinations with bad A/F ratios. This all sounds more like the "rant" of someone in denial over the relative value of their purchase. Just because you paid too much for a tired cliche is no reason to run down an excellent value with loads of potential. Cheryl
I never intend to buy a newer car unless I need a winter car, which I probably will because if I get my car restored and I get a pristine 1970-1972 GS 350 4 spd, I won't drive them in winter. I will need a winter beater sometime, but it will be a buick also. That's one good thing about a new car, A+ excellent winter beaters, due to their front wheel drive platform. But as far as im concerned, a real car is an old car:beer
Yep, when it comes to price, you can't beat an old car. You get alot of "bang for the buck." in other words, you get more than acceptable performance and you get a tough car along with it. I don't know what it is, but has anyone noticed that the mid seventies buick bumpers are really tough? I know their tough because my grandma backed into a light pole at a sites gas station while backing out and it knocked the pole over, but only a small ding in the bumper. By the way, my grandma used to own a '76 electra. If you want a real car, ya better buy an old one:TU: :3gears: :Brow:
Re: Re: Re: Re: I agree with this guy...... I have run 2 Cobras from a roll. I street race in the off season, and have $1200 worth of their money to show for it. I ordered my car and paid 34,800 out the door. I have had offers in the past few weeks of 29,500 to 30,000. Losing 5k after the car has made me 8k street racing doesn't look so bad to me. My Vette has IRS as well, with stock springs and shocks so I think it's more of a design issue than an "IRS cars can't hook" issue. Several magazines had also written that the Ford IRS is not up to par and not much of an improvement over the solid axle. My converter was $700, and my gears cost me $550. $1250 in bolt ons and I'm also in the 11s. The car that I beat belongs to a consistent racer who is in the points with me at e-town and he has been consistently around .1 slower than me. If you want to see some good Cobra kills, go to www.corvettekillstories.com. I am friends with several '03 and '04 Cobra owners from the street racing scene. 3 of the guys I know have wasted engine bearings. Ford warrantied their claims, and when they asked about the repair the service writers told them "some of these models had an issue which has been corrected". I based my statements on hard facts rather than speculation. I have built several race engines, but I guess I wouldn't know what I'm talking about I also remember Ford's Cobra recall a few years back because of the lawsuits of cutomers who found their engines made 30 hp less than advertised. This tired cliche will enjoy seeing you in my mirror. If you think of the Vette as a tired cliche, look at how many Mustangs that look almost identical are on the road. I don't think a personal attack was warranted here, just because I have an opinion that differs from yours. You don't even own the car and are flipping out about what somebody else thinks about it. I think you should just buy a Honda and install a wing and fart pipe, the ricer world is where an attitude like that is accepted. If I wanted to buy something with "loads of potential", I'd buy a used low-mileage LS1 Camaro/Firebird for 10k, spend another 10k on heads/cam/driveline and run 10s for less than what the Cobra costs. If you don't think that can be done, visit the website for my friend's shop, www.cartek.net and look at what their customers' cars have been running. I help out there from time to time so I know eactly what's involved. If you want to set up a big $$ street race I will set you up with my friend's NA Camaro, 346 ci heads/cam car. Or if you want to run power adder to power adder, I've got a 9-second 346 ci Camaro w/N2O for you. Email me privately as I don't set up the races on public forums. Have a nice day, Artienjvetteguy@aol.com
mustang arte, i remember about the re-call on the late 90s cobras. some of the owners complained about getting their doors blown off by same year camaros/ firebirds. the cobras were found to be down about 30-40 less horsepower because of an intake manifold problem. i would imagine ford this time made sure the cobras have their advertised horsepower. the ls-1 is no doubt a great engine. what is the horsepower rating for the 2004 z-o6?
Re: mustang I think the 04 Zo6 is 405hp, is it not?? ait until the C6 hits next year, BASE will be 400HP, Z06 will be 500HP and there is serious talk of a limited edtion 600+HP ZL1 vette.....gotta love that. 30 years ago everyone said the new cars look the same, today they say it, and 30 years form now they will say it. Never changes. Make your car run like some of these new ones and you will spent close to the same money somewhere.....still love my GS's, don't get me wrong, but I see a LOT fo people with blinders on.... later Tim
Re: mustang That was the 99's... the first in that body style. As a result there weren't any 2000's, if I remember correctly. Plus, the LS1's were close to putting out advertised power at the rear wheels off the showroom. It took them very little to reach it.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I agree with this guy...... Typical neanderthal male response. I am sure you know everything Artie. The best punishment for some is to let them be as they are. Cheryl
With all the technology they've applied to performance, I wouldn't mind them giving a little attention to reliability and affordability of repairs. Aside from electronic ignition and extended plug life, I don't see those modern machines being all that more reliable. On top of that, for those mechanically inclined, the older cars can usually be repaired pretty inexpensively. Worst case on those, if you're looking at a new engine (which last about the same as the more modern) you could be out $3,000 - max. Seemingly minor repairs on the modern machines can easily reach $750-1,000 every time. Keep it long enough to need a new engine and you're REALLY in for it.
you gotta remember though with these old cars, you can pump horsepower out to more than 600 hp, you can make an old car come up with a 1000+ with some of the after-market stuff and the reproduction parts. All you have to do is have the money to make the idea a reality. All the money you would spend on a new corvette you could pull a buick out and up the horsepower way past the limits, so if I was gonna get a car with 600 HP, I would just buy a buick and up the horsepower over a corvettes 600, and it could truly be done with no problem except for money. but if I had the money to buy a corvette, I would just go ahead and pull an old buick out and pump the old HP up and I would have a faster car than the vette. :Smarty: Ive seen buicks with more horsepower than a vette, and im sure i will see one again sometime real soon!!!!!:laugh:
I had a 95 ZR1 Corvette and don't need to tell you about the specs. You guys know about it. The engine option was $25K at the time. The new Corvettes are fast too. Not sure if any of the Corvette crowd would want to say that the new ones are better than a ZR1 or not. I know new cars are fast. My 72GS455 with the 2004R and 3.73 is just as much fun. Lower cost by far than the ZR1. And another thing. I understand how the engine works with no computer chips, aluminum block, or fancy gizmos. So I'm happy with the 30 year old cars even though I know that there are some new ones made that may challenge. I think most of us would rather be in the old 30 year car side by side than being in the new one. We are the old car hot rod guys from these new car guys perspective. That is the fun part. I've even had these hemi Dodge trucks trying to race me lately. Too funny. Everybody appreciates the old muscle cars and want to pass the test. Bring on the new Rustang, I want a shot.
I'm not a Ford guy by ANY stretch of the imagination....but, the new fastback design really is pretty cool looking.:TU: About the only Mustangs I've ever liked were the old fastbacks...whether Shelby's or the Boss/Mach 1 style. IMO, the 2005 Mustang is the best thing they've come out with, style wise, since 1970!!:bglasses: I'm not a fan at all of the current Ford engines though. Ford has been playing 'catch-up' for the last decade to GM's LT1 and LSx (or Gen II and III if you prefer). For that matter, the SOHC 4.6l V8 has had a tough time out performing GM's 3800 Series II V6!!:Brow: It wasn't until they slapped an Eaton SC on these things, that there performance finally stepped up. What the aftermarket and drag racers are doing with the 'mod' motors is another story entirely!!:TU: Call me a diehard...or dinosaur...but I still prefer the pushrod engines!!:TU: The Buick SC3800 and Chevy Gen III engines are proof enough that they still work quite well!!:Smarty: As far as engines new or old reaching 1000hp....the LT1's and LSx's have much more potential than our beloved 455's. Believe me...I'm not knocking our Buick 455's!! I'd consider myself as much a 'Buick guy' as anyone. It's just an unfortunate fact...the blocks won't hold up in the range. ou:
A friend of mine runs a van service and after he picked up his new Ford bus the salesman mentioned Ford is returning the 351 and the 460 back to the engine line-up. I believe this is supposed to be for next year's models.
Victor said "Keep it long enough to need a new engine and you're REALLY in for it." Ain't that the truth! As I said before in an earlier post, all that dried up and brittle plastic, electronic repairs, can you just imagine the parts nightmare restoring one of these cars in the future? :shock: I just can't see it happenning. Especially with the new clunker laws requiring that all original emission equipment must function.ou:
