1 Bad GS said: "we should be worrying if buick is gonna get the ax after oldsmobile." Valid point. The Riviera has already fell victim to GM's twisted logic. In a time when all GM cars look the same, what a perfect time to create a model that stands out from the rest. What are they doing? They make a "GTO" if that's what you want to call it, and it is barely off the drawing board and now they are talking of re-designing it already! Hello! :spank: Is there anybody home? If it hasn't become obvious to these guys running things by now that us GM car fans want a REAL retro car, I don't think it's gonna happen. Their too busy making SUV's (Aztec?) to be bothered. The big three depend on those things to carry them. Already I've heard stories of a retro ford Bronco. Yeah, right. We can only dream of a retro car made by GM with the appeal of the new Mustang. And 500 HP is nothing to sneeze at. Don't WE wish. :beer
The only GM cars I'd buy now are the Vette and the Cadillac CTS-V(LS1 based V8, rear drive, 5-spd manual in a light body:Brow: ). I do like the SSR too, but there's no way I'm laying down 45k+ for it. There are quicker cars that can be had for a lot less coin. My '01 Vette is a base model with almost every option, and with bolt-on mods, TC and gears I'm deep in the 11s with 28 MPG highway and passes emissions with flying colors. I drove to BG, clicked off a few 11-second passes and drove home, 1900 miles round trip. My car had a list of 37k, I got it for 34k, and with my trade-in('96 Impala SS) the monthly payment is pretty reasonable. The Camaro SS optioned the same way listed for 32k. Pretty easy choice if you ask me, considering the Vette holds its resale value. If they kept the F-bodies affordable they'd still be making them today. I really miss affordable performance...
I would agree that Ford has it's marketing department barking up the right tree with the '05 Mustang, GT40, and concept Cobra, not to mention a few others. More importantly, Ford is delivering. I've owned both the fox-bodied 5.0 and the late model Z-28. While neither were classified under the original muscle car definition of mid-sized vehicle with full-sized motor, they both were intended for the same market as the 1960's muscle cars. I believe there is a newer definition of muscle car, one that was born from the engine bay of the Grand National. The old definition is no longer applicable in a world where small blocks can often out run those older big blocks off the show room floor. Yet for me, the formula must still include rear wheel drive, and not just to exclude the import crowd which I think deserves some respect. Technology has improved things over the years and we should hope it will continue to. Our Gran Sports are oranges when compared to these new apples. So why compare? Why can't we like oranges AND apples? BTW, I don't believe the f-body died because of the price tag near as much as I believe the Mustang was much friendlier to drive and own. Buyers chose the more well-rounded vehicle over the snap-together-kit rocket. I think the resale of both cars reflect that.
I like all performance cars too, be carefull about those 03 cobra mustangs, I know of a couple with over 450hp and torque at the rear wheels, one has 530hp. Those numbers put you in the mid to upper 11's(120mph)on street tires and drive um home with the 6 disk player kicking. Those numbers are not even with headers, and its only 281ci. They pull real hard on the top end, but have goobs of torque as well(gee, sounds like muscle to me). Got to hand it to ford they are making plenty of muscle......lets see a mustang GT, mustang mach 1, the cobra of course(bad ass for only $35k) lightning truck which is awsome as well. Let see about GM they made a 87GN buick witch was bad ass then drop it the next yearou: then comes the impala SS very nice sporty big car but after 3 years its goneou: , camero, trans am(ram air car ran nice)goneou: , now it the new GTO whoopie.... The new vette looks nice but your going to look silly after that 03 cobra mustang blows you off the road for under $40k. Like i said i like ALL preformance cars, take a look around you might be in for a treat.:3gears:
Actually, the closest thing I've seen to a new factory muscle car is the Mercury Marauder. 300 odd ponies, seats 6, living room sized trunk, and it only comes in Black, Grey, or Red. C'mon even I like this, and I never really thought much of Fords. El Brado
Yeah, it's too bad the Marauder has been cut. They look great, especially on the inside. But 300 horses is not really enough to propell 4200 pounds in a quick like manner. But, stick an Eaton supercharger on top and then it's in Lightning territory!
I'll probably take some flack for this but, here goes: Comparing motorcycles to Cars- New GTO- motorcycle equivalent would be a Kawasaki ZRX-1100. They're both a take on older machines, but they blend in with everything else on the road. They both have balls, but just don't look sporty enough for those who like modern cars (bikes), or retro enough for those that like older cars (bikes). The new Mustang, in my opinion, is the perfect trade-off. It's modern enough to appeal to the younger crowd, retro enough to bring back good memories for the older crowd. It has power... I think the above posts covered that well enough. It stands out, even though there are a zillion of them out there. I had one Buick guy from way back tell me not too long ago that they are just a fun car to drive- you don't have the upkeep of the old cars, and they feel faster than they really are. I guess I can understand that. It will never be a muscle car though. Would all of you really buy a new GTO if they were as rough around the edges as the old ones, with a new car price? Not me, but a lot of people love Harleys, and they're the biggest pieces of under-engineered, antique ripoff, garbage made today! It's funny... when I ride a motorcycle, I want something that is new and fast. I like Hondas and Yamahas. Cars are different though. Ever since I've experienced good old American Buick muscle, everything else just seems like transportation to me. That's why I wouldn't buy a mustang, a GTO, etc. etc. Why not have the real thing on weekends, and get something gas efficient with no personality (read- dependable that you don't have to think about) to get you to work every day? A compromise will always be just that, and a new imitation will never be the same as the original.
Pontiac didn't want to break their ugly car streak that they seem so good at---Pontiac Aztek, now the GTO--I think the designers found some of DeLorean's stash in there and snorted it all up! Of course Ford has been giving them a run for their money with the hideous looking Mustang they've been selling for the better part of a decade now.....the new one however looks like a winner in the design department. Patton
My neighbor down the street has a '65 Marauder with a 390. It's not on the road, and has just ben sitting outside uncovered for the last 10 years. Breaks my heart, what a cool cruisin' machine that car could have been. I'm not a Ford guy either, but when you let a car sit like that here in Buffalo, it's a very slow death sentance for the car. What a stupid man.:blast:
Many people may disagree with this statement, but as far as I'm concerned nearly every Pontiac model that has been produced lately is ugly. All GM models may look alike, but these cars are in a class all by themselves.
I don't know, but I consider the 69-71 or 72 Mustangs with 428, 429, 351 and what have you, muscle cars. In my own little world anyway. As described earlier, the term is interpreted as much if not more ways than the Holy Bible. I almost think it will always be subjective and will be debated forever, because even though there may be several privately or personally written definitions, who is to say what one is, or what one isn't, a "musclecar"?
Got agree with you Ken--Ford took a cool car like Mustang and adapted it to the musclecar use---initially marketed as a "sporty" car and when the hp wars began they started stuffing the BIG motors in there....not much in the handling dept at that point but just like the other big block cars it was made to scream in a straight line. Mustangs, like virtually everything else started out as something not intended as a musclecar(Skylark, Tempest, Chevelle etc all started as non-muscle types). Patton
Hi all, I'm not a Ford guy but a friend stopped by with his new mustang GT yesterday. What a great car. GM stopped selling camero's and firebirds because the people who buy them are 20 to 40 years old and don't have $30,000 to spend on a car. I have a 95 Impala SS, lots of power, but the underside was rusted in 3 years(no undercoating), and the quality of the car is just plain poor. The big auto companies demand cost reduction from their suppliers and the consumer suffers. This is why you see new vehicles with rusty fasteners after a year. My Buick still has the orginal undercoating!! We could buy 5 restored old muscle cars for what they are asking for one of these new cars! Besides, it would be great to have an old Nova or Skylark to have as a daily driver! Ford has a better idea(buy an old Buick!) Mark
Has anyone seen the pics of the 2005 mustang? Looks like M/T has some in the Feb 04 issue. I like it, very retro looking. Found it posted here.
Having owned 3 5.0 notchback Mustangs (2 ex highway patrol, and one that just didn't have many options), this is the first Mustang I've actually liked since 1993. That being said, I haven't seen one in person yet either. I may change my mind. As far as the GTO goes... I like it. I think it needs the signature ram air hood, but I'm sure it is coming too. I saw the same show about the GTO guys who didn't like the styling. But then they drove it and loved the way it drove. When it all comes down to it, it's all opinions. The important thing is to like what you put your key into, regardless of what the neighbors shove theirs into. I like the "can't we like both apples and oranges" comment. I guess the answer is, "It's up to you".
i give the mustang its credit but ive been noticing lately that chevy has been dwindleing to a sissyfied company building poo poo like the impala come on what is that its a disgrace to that name and if you look at the new vette comming out its looking a whole lot like mazdas miata and also look at the ssr thats a real heaping pile come on chevy 35-40 g's for a slow wanna be truck thats on the trailblazer platform why didnt chevy run the vette motor like he concept if your gonna pay that much go get a lightning or something worth while and as far as dodge is concerned i think theyre a joke there owned by daimler couldnt even hold thier own but im dissapointed in chevy especially ford is my company other than buick of course (yeah i know its gm but chevy is the one im dissapointed with). chevy has been going down hill with the styling and in some aspects the engines too correct me if im wrong but ive been hearing that chevy is going to use a honda v6 in an ss version of the malibu now what is chevy thinking? anyway ford has been trearing things up the mercury marauder the cobra mustang and machs and the lightning the hd f150 need i say more? wow and all dodge has is thier hideously ugly rams and durango's im so depressed with the other two of the big three and i wish buick would build something reminisent of the grand nasty thatd be beutiful but will it happen?
I think the closest thing to a muscle car right now is the Cadillac CTS V series - 400hp, 6 speed, big brakes, and great handling. I work at a Cadillac dealer and we have confirmation that our first CTS-V is being built. I can't wait until it arrives! Also, don't knock the 04 base CTS- with 260hp, 5 speed auto and VVT, it is a bit of a screamer in it's own right. Has TRUE dual exhaust too! Todd
oh yeah i know about the cts v which has the ls6 from the zo6 vette i love those motors very strong indeed its chevy that im mad at for the turds theyve been building and putting out lately and pontiac has had the worst ugly streak ive seen one good enough to rival dodge's all i can say about them and chevy is :moonu: :moonu: :moonu: anyway id rather have my LeSabre over anything dont care what anyone offers me itll always be my car of choice even if right now its all over my back yard.:rant:
Damian, finally a guy who sees those pontiacs the way I do. They're soooo ugly. At the local cruises there is a guy with a 2000 something grand prix pace car with strobes in it. I HATE THAT THING!!!! One night I had spots in my eyes all the way driving home. Then there's the guy with the puke green colored azzcrack he parked- I better stop. I'd like to tell those guys to go get rid of that new crap and get a real cruiser. They may as well be ricers. Sure feels good to get that one off my chest.:Brow:
