Information on porting cylinder heads

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by gmcgruther, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    I want to start off by saying, I'm sorry if I hijacked the Big Chief Heads for Buicks thread. I was wrong for doing that. Now for that being said, this thread is for people that want to learn about " Porting and Polishing cylinder heads , Names of some very highly skilled Cylinder head designers and porters , Manufactures of some of the best cylinder head makers , and several other things. Im open for opinions but you must prove it. Why you ask? Because if you come hetr to cause a problem I will seek to have you removed from the thread. I like to have pictures of Ported heads and description of what was done (not in great detail). Anything that pertains to cylinder heads and what was involved in it. (Again, not in great detail. I don't want anyone thinking I'm stealing there ideas..) I will post some pictures and articles very soon.
  2. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    photo 2 (3).jpg photo 4 (2).jpg the first pic is pointing to ware the shear ledge is on the factory stge 2 heads. I may have removed or shaped this area wrong. The carb is shown some of the locktite weld I added to smothen the bumps in this max effort Rochester im running.
  3. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    UHH, whats a shear point :confused:. How did you do it wrong? Did you have it checked on a flow bench? Does it make more noise at a certain lift or flow starts to go backwards? By the way, I do like your finger pointers you use in your pictures.
  4. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Hopefully on topic...

    66gsconv, is that your nailhead work over on the "flowbench" forum? If so, is there any thing you might do different? Geometry OK with non-Buick valves?

    I have a Nail project in my lap and am sponging any insight to porting these.

    OK to PM , or use the Nail area of the board if you don't want it in this thread.

  5. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    Page 122 in how to port and flow test cylnder heads David Viz Its actually called a fuel dam. in the vendor section for TA perf there used to be pics of the stg 2 factory heads , you could see it in there, but the pics are gone now.
  6. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    I have to agree with you on this one but , which is cheaper, a day paying for a flowbench test or a pro port job? When at the flowbench ask some questions like if they wetflow test? (This lets you see what's going on in the combustion chamber and cylinder, it also tells you if you are going in the rt direction or not.) I mentioned in my first post that I'll be mentioning some big names in porting business but keep in mind that there is other very reputable porters out there. The ones I'll be mentioning is the best in the business hands down. If you want to learn about flow work you can go to DR J's Performance and go to there forum and sign up and ask the owner yourself about Buick heads! You'll be surprised needless to say. I will be going to my local library to use there web and computer to upload some pictures and other information.. Please keep the pictures coming and the comments too.
  7. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Lots of good flow bench info on the PTS forum. DIY encouraged, even wet flow. DIY dyno, too. Check it out.

    Pretty mellow group, gotta keep it toned down. Extremely sharp talent over there.

    I really don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I don't come here to read about Darin Morgan or DR J. If they are working with Buick stuff and would like to share, I'm sure they will.
    I'd rather hear about your accomplishments. Seriously. If you have some stuff not Buick related, just put it on another forum, and I might see it there.

    You'd be surprised at what folks out there know, not all of us are in the dark ages. Some like to steer a guy so one can learn rather than just hand it over...give a man a fish, right? Hard part about the internet is judging credibility based on the unequal level of communication skills.

  8. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    You can have an idea of what the flow is doing by using probes, flow balls, string, smoke, dye, etc. One's mind is always the limit. If you believe in a theory, do it, prove it. Everyone benefits.

    For many years I've wanted to build a wet flow bench, but I don't ever have time, and I seem to reach my goals without it. Maybe someday.

    If you think about it, the basic formulas we use were derived from the WWII effort, some even long before. Slide rule days. Not just airflow, but the complete embodiment of the Engine.
    A good jump was during the 60's. Not to say that we haven't had some amazing developments since, but the most modern stuff is more related to measuring and collecting data, controlling it with a computer.

    Have fun on your quest for knowledge, and if you have something profound please share it.:grin:
  9. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    I guess I haven't really stayed on track with your thread. My apologies for that. Members have been encouraging you to learn more by doing. I'm just doing the same. Otherwise you gotta pay to play...

    I will admit to Google image searching certain heads I've not worked with yet. It isn't to steal and make $$ off of by replicating their work. It's so I don't get my a$$ kicked so badly on time. It can take a long week to break new ground in an unfamiliar head. That is a very long, wrist numbing, low paying week. It's hard to earn it back without mass duplication or having the porting aspect be a fundamental and necessary part of a high $$ build. I do many types, so it's not likely I'll do too many of one....other than chev.

    There are many heads are out there to fit the market already. You can explore niche markets, bump elbows with the best, or offer it cheaper. None of which is a smart business plan, for me anyways. For now I can non-compete with local shops because I am willing to put the time into a project from teardown to tune knowing full well that I lose $$ on porting, engineering, support, ordering, on. I'm willing to do that because I know how all the details add up to a better product. A place with bigger overhead simply can't spend the time to do. It isn't a guessing game or a risk to me, but it is an honest day's pay at best. If I get bigger, I'm planning my own obsolescence. Gotta feed the corporate monster...

    After enough flow testing you can get a basic idea of what the port creator is trying to do when you see their pic. Then you just creep up on it. Then duplicate. If you are looking for pics of specific heads and the results, Google is your friend here. You can find nearly anything you want already. If you are going to put up pics and discuss theories, you may get some comments and pointers. I already pointed you to a different forum for that.

    When I look at the BBB head, I see some of what ended up on the more developed SBC 23* heads (loosely speaking here).

    In a heartbeat I would get the roughing work done by CNC, if it were affordable, then hand finish. At the same time, a customer would simply go there too, and cut me out.

    If this is what you are asking for, I can offer some non-Buick info complete to the dragstrip, or comments on mileage for high powered daily drivers. Truthfully, a large amount of projects never make it past the engine stand phase. It can take years for some projects, and the results don't always come back.

    Sorry for the novel-length rant. Many pros are not going to give up much without $$ in hand. Off the top of my head, Dick Miller or Jon Kaase won't talk without a credit card deposit, then refund upon committing to a project.

    If you are looking for more specific info, could ask a more focused question? Or do you just want to talk about ported heads?
  10. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    No offense taken, Darin m. has worked on buicks but hasn't ppsted thing. Now, Bryce over at DR J's, he has and you will be shocked on what he has done with bbb heads! They don't call him Dr Air for nothing. He has worked on heads that no one else will. Like I said I will post some big names because they are the best in the business. Greg Gessler is a famous bbb cylinder head porter and you have to call him to get information because he doesn't come any forums. you are correct on the flow bench tools, I'll be posting some articles on them shortly.
  11. Vortecpro

    Vortecpro Vortecpro

    I doubt I would be shocked by anything "Dr J" has done on a Buick head. On the internet the first thing I look for when someone is making claims is their on track performance, to be specific the MPH their car runs at a verified weight, this is when the BS stops. Speaking NA, the "Dr" never's really done much in this area. Darin Morgan's father now deceased was a really close friend of my family's, I never remember him speaking of Darin being immersed in a production headed Buick program, but anythings possible.
  12. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    Could you explain what Mr Vizard says a fuel dam is and what it does
  13. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    Over on the other thread I was surprised to learn that Mr. Boggs has done work on Buick heads. I know who to contact now if I ever decide to step up my Buick game with a TA aluminum block and need associated head work. He's done work for a few friends of mine with class winning results.
  14. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    Curtis Boggs is damn good cylinder head modifier. What I mean by that is, Curtis will literally reconstruct the intake ports and exhaust ports to best fit your vehicle and engine combo. There is many others that do very custom cylinder heads that will blow anyone's mind. Look up CFE cylinder heads, these guys are thee best in NHRA Pro Stock cylinder heads of today. Even Jason Line has admitted they are on the cutting edge. I learn from what this guys talk about in different magazine's. Dr J did a set of heads for someone on here and the guy is very happy on the results. Darin Morgan, i don't think he has done bbb iron heads just TA'S Performance heads. What was the results? I couldn't tell you. I have talked to Sonny at Sonny's racing engines and he agreed to help Mike at TA if he would call him! The reason I called so many people to help Mike is to to get a cylinder head that will be like no other that we ever saw. I even wrote to Air Flow Research better known as A.F.R. Cylinder heads, he said if there was a big demand for Buick heads he would scare everyone on a non raised port bbb head. I asked him how's that? He said this, "Just look at my AFR 245 cylinder heads! They are breakinking records and there not even raised runner heads nor are they canted/splayed valve heads! " just think now, what can he do to TA Performance Stage1 heads? If anyone don't think AFR can do anything for buick, I suggest you look at there records in every motor divison! Before they started making cylinder heads they modified every single manufactures heads at one time or another . For the wetflow bench? If anyone has a flowbench you can buy the attachments for any flowbench including a homemade one. Now the cost, I can not tell you the price. Sorry. I will post some articles from some very high rankin people in the cylinder head business that explains on what it takes to design or modify cylinder heads, remind you this will be in there words not mine. I will give the web page and copy and paste the article for you. This is where I learned what I know. Trust me , there is a poo load of reading but anyone can get good results if they read and apply but, again repeatability is the key..
  15. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    May I suggest something ? Join their forum and reaf away! You will be surprise for sure, I'll promise you that. If they can a cylinder head Darin Made and modify it to make more power on the same engine build and stuffed in the same car that it was tested in and get better results! I say they do know what they are donin. The cylinder is. mafe by Profiler performance and you can buy it straight out or buy the same head by DR J'S PERFORMANCE which is modified and now called AirWolf. That head pulls a ton of torque. Dr J's performance do a ton of dyno and track testing before they put out any of their heads. Bryce wad taught by Rodger Halgesen which is the same person David Vizard learned a lot from. Roger is know to be one of the best in the world. He has several articles out there too.
  16. Vortecpro

    Vortecpro Vortecpro

    I have a question, What has Rodger or David ever done in racing? BTW I know Bryce. Its Helgesen I believe.
  17. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Ummm, Can I recommend following Vortecpro's work (and advice)? This guy's got some really well sorted out packages. Not just head porting, but how it relates to the entire package, all the way to the tire. From what I've seen, he's going a ways beyond the norm.

    I'm not affiliated, just seeing some noise made around the internet. I don't think he'd be afraid to compare some of his work to anybody mentioned. No disrespect to anyone intended.

  18. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    Roger is one of the pioneers of the cylinder head airflow, he is respected by the top cylinder head designers and porters. David has one of the most best accomplishments in factory car racing of this day. majority of his factory engine accomplishments is in great britian. he only made Chrysler little four cylinder car smoke and embarrass Fords beloved lotus engine in several divisions of racing. just ask any top race team about David Vizard and you'll will find out how well he has done. David only has more dyno and track time then any single cylinder head designer and porter. he only has officially recorded beyond 500,000 dyno hrs that's all.
  19. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    VortecPro, can you compare your accomplishments Darin Morgan? Remind you he has worked at Profiler performance and Reher-Morrison ! How about AFR CYLINDER HEADS, they designed the S.B 2.2 Nascar head. what about CFE cylinder heads? They are the current record holder in NHRA PROSTOCK. CYLINDER HEADS, Erica Enders set a national speed and E.T. record using their heads! I gain my knowledge on proven work too. I don't mean no disrespect ok? Mr Helgesen is spelled correctly... I'm willing to learn from anyone if they have a better way of describing on how to do things. My way of thinking is sometimes offensive so please try to understand me ok? David V. has several books books out there, my best one so far and I still have to get is "How to build Horsepower on abudget" in that book he gos through a small block chevy and tells you what you need to build a 1000 hp smbchevy for $3000 and what to do to a car to make it all work. I have talked to several people that had done that package and has been successful with it. I'm a big think tank! I'm always trying to figure out on how to build more power. Just like this idea I have for a wetflow and standard bench flow bench, why haven't anyone try a doppler effect machine to see what's going on in the cylinder head, especially the cylinder and and combustion chamber? A doppler tells you wind speed,showd high and low spots, it also shows vortise's and the speed of them. Wouldn't that be more informational to a cylinder head porter and designer?
  20. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    Thanks for posting a couple of pictures Hotrodrivi. After reading the OP again I realize this is a thread to talk about name droping and big names and what they are doing? After talking to 8ad-f85 if he tells you that vortecpro knows his stuff, I would belive him.

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