Information on porting cylinder heads

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by gmcgruther, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    Ok. First I'll start off on the bbc head. As cast bbc heads are not symmetrical in anyway , there fore having two different flow patterns . Know on the CNC, unless you have every single. port pattern known for a particular head, it would be damn near impossible to have that machine do a all out race port. Thous meaning you still have to use a CFD program to get the most out any head for a particular engine. That is why I try to talk to most of the big name people, that is what they tell me. Why I found out was by trying to submit my drawing to Darin M. and Curtis B. and many more, they all told me that it take CFD programing to get the most optimum port for a particular engine. My biggest thing was from ARF when they told me this, "Just think about this for a second, for instance my 245 cc smb chevy heads. they come fully CNC'ed because they are a 235cc casting ported out but when we get a particular request on a bad butt small block we take it farther by hand porting it to that engine. sometimes a cnccan not do what a human can do. just think of it this away, a human has to program the machine no matter what!" At that point I realized that cnc heads are great if you want to run someone else's port design. Yes you must do a poo load of work to even get to the point of programing a cnc to do the rest of your ports after you do the research your self. Now, for me, I think sticking to hand porting is the best yet. No high tech cncto by but a simple Flowbench can get you what you want easily. now if you want to step up and get the rest of the gadets to really excel, then I suggest stepping up to aflow bench like Dart has!
     
  2. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    I would think scanning hundreds of miles might take some time but a intake port of Buick big block or even a long port head would be merely seconds . on that bbc cyl head on int is being some what shrouded because of port turning in the cylinder wall opposing turning inthe center of the port.. Don't get me wrong on the cnc but I perfer hand porting. Its more of the though of "I made that port flow like that." Instead,"well I have wait and see?" Guess I'm a more of ahands on guy but want to help the people that have the cash to afford high tech gadets to get ahead.
     
  3. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    After doing a simple google search "prices on cfd programs" at first I about squeezed my arse hard enough to make a diamond :( but as I went along looking deeper, as of today you can get a high end program for $60,000.00. Looking farther and seeing what is needed for cylinde r heads, you'll spend in the neighborhood of $8000.00 to $10.000.00 that's it! For that price you'll make that back less then a yr easily. ya I'll think in that neighborhood for now....
     
  4. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    I know this is your thread, but I wasn't looking for info on BBC heads in general, just that one.

    Never mind, it wasn't that important, I think I figured it out.

    I agree on hand tuning CNC ports for 3 reasons.
    1. It's quick and easy to make a minor adjustment.
    2. You cannot fully utilize a casting, simply because of the variances from one to the next. You have to stay conservative or risk scrap.
    3. It would be a good way to keep costs down by using it as fast, precise material removal. You could strategically leave the feed lines rough, where desired. Notice some of the ones out there stay well away from seats, but leave sharp edges here and there.

    I looked into it as a solution to the incredible time spent hand porting.
    I would make some port molds and flow boxes before spending 8-10k on CFD. The PTS forum has such. You may well recognize something.
    I can likely achieve my goals without CFD. I'm not trying to be an industry leader...

    I know what you mean with the "axes". I worked with an inspector who didn't realize the axes on the CMM weren't always programmed the same as how the parts were loaded into the machine. Rather than mark the feature on the part, with an arrow and a dimension showing where and how far to move it, they would tell an operator (not a supervisor) simply to "move your x-axis ...".
    Made for some interesting conversations. Soon afterwards, everyone got tested and re-educated...

    I'm going to look into 3d printing that "Stepford girlfriend" Rosie, who can also cook and clean, being that my wife just went to bed crabby....:grin:
     
  5. Vortecpro

    Vortecpro Vortecpro

    I would be happy to ask Harold who did the port, can you specify the exact head you are speaking of. Just Tuesday at lunch Harold and I discussed this thread and its contents.
     
  6. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't want to spoil it...

    Some things go right past people.

    I wonder if ARF did it?

    It probably won't be funny anymore when he figures it out.
     
  7. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    ...
    Seriously, For some strange reason I hope this thread continues...
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
  8. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Anyone interested in CNC work on Buick heads should talk to Bobb Mackley.... Or just send him your heads lol...
     
  9. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    Bobb most be good for Buicks I assume? Please someone have him chime in.
     
  10. sriley531

    sriley531 Excommunicado

    I almost had him do mine. I ended up going with Gessler in the end. No real strong reason, just went that way because I had prior dealings with Greg and liked doing business with him. Not a knock on Bobb at all, he's a good guy too and definitely does good work from all that I've heard and seen.
    Yes he is, but unfortunately he won't be chiming in here. Long story, but it won't be happening.
     
  11. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    After going through my papers I copied form the internet (Enginebuildermag.com) Titled "Drag racing cylinder selection" http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2007/09/drag-racing-cylinder-head-selection/ The author writes about some cylinder head manufactures quoteing some high flow numbers but he goes on stating Cylinder head specialist Darin Morgan's findings and explains what is really needed to get or make a cylinder head to do what it needs and the five most important variables used to tune the induction system: 1. Average velocity, 2. individual instantaneous velocities, 3. Shape/Design-(Maximize a homogeneous velocity profile over the entire port and at the same time promote efficient flow), 4. Rate of velocity change and, 5. AIRFLOW..... The author writes about Curtis bogg's at Race Flow Development (R.F.D.), Curtis takes a bare casting and comes up with its own port design. If you simply click on the web site you will learn what I have been learning from some highly train group of people, there is more then just those two in there.
     
  12. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    I'm about to start posting a ton of pictures for everyone. There just bits and piece's that's all. By the way they will not be in order sorry... [​IMG][/URL][/IMG] , [​IMG][/URL][/IMG] , [​IMG][/URL][/IMG] , [​IMG][/URL][/IMG] , [​IMG][/URL][/IMG] .
     
  13. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

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  14. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

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  15. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

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  16. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

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  17. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

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  18. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

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  19. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

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  20. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

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