How to increase BBB engine longevity!

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by Staged70Lark, Aug 31, 2005.

  1. Staged70Lark

    Staged70Lark Well-Known Member

    Terrance,

    I really like the Scavanger Oiling system. This system worked great on my car when turnning the engine to 7200-7300 rpms. The advantage of this system is the elimination of SEVERAL 90 degree turns that the oil has to make when using the stock oiling system.

    Larry (Weekender),

    When we talked on the phone this is the system I was trying to described for you.


    The key again here is to get as much VOLUME of oil to the proper places without adding additional stress to the distributer gear. Reducing the amount of turns the oil has to make will do nothing but help your engine.

    James,
    When using the epoxy for the lifter galleys there is no way to drain the oil back down into the oil pan therefore you must install the oil lines to drain the oil back. I have used the epoxy but honestly I think your better off buying the T/A lifter galley girdle. After buying all of the epoxy and the lazer cut plates its almost as expensive as the T/A girdle. Plus the T/A girdle will not chip and crack leaving the possibility of unwanted particles in your oil plus the T/A girdle can be removed and put into another block if needed.

    Later
     
  2. Staged70Lark

    Staged70Lark Well-Known Member

    Larry,

    I said that I would talk about oil pickups so here goes. Lets start by saying there are a couple of reasons why I dont like the one you made. Firstly it doesn't extend out into the middle of the oil pan. That is where the pickup must be. Secondly, the cover can hold air and cause oil cavitation. Air going through your oiling system is a KILLER.

    I personally used a Molidon swing arm pickup. Under accelaration the pickup moves to the back of the pan. Under de-celeration the pickup moves to the front of the pan. Below is a picture.

    NOW.... some dont like this. Doug Hecker removed his for fear that it was causing his engine failure. I have recently had some issues with this product also. Hopefully I can explain this properly.

    The pickup is to be installed 1/4 to 3/8 from the bottom of the pan. Which was done correctly. Under wide open throttle I have my vacuum pump pulling about 8" of crankcase vacuum. This along with the fact that the pickup is pulling oil at a rate of 7 gallons per minute caused the pickup to pull the bottom of the pan up against the pickup. Luckily I have a kill switch installed that will shut the engine off if the oil pressure goes below 15 psi. So if you decide to using this type of oil pickup then you must make sure the bottom of your oil pan will not suck up against the pickup. Yesterday I cut the bottom of my oil pan out which was .060 sheet metal and replace it with .125. I am hoping this works.

    Here is a pic of the swing arm pickup....
     

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  3. Staged70Lark

    Staged70Lark Well-Known Member

    Larry,

    Here is another pickup that I like. Its from Moroso and needs to be TIG WELDED into the pan. The pickup and legs that weld to the bottom of the pan therefore its virtually impossilbe the have the bottom of the pan suck up against the pickup.
     

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  4. Steve Reynolds

    Steve Reynolds SRE Inc

    Oil Pickup

    John, I agree on that home built oil pickup. Very good attempt, but it would be trouble.
    I sell an all aluminum rectagular shaped oil pickup that has four small solid legs that sit on the bottom of the pan. It's completly removeable for cleaning, servicing or being installed in a different oil pan. I build them with either a -12AN or a -16AN male fitting that sticks out of the pan. It's sealed by an O-ring, and fastened with a nut from the outside. It has a removable screen, again for servicing and cleaning.
    I get $125 for either size.
    I don't have a picture of it on this PC, but I can send one from my shop PC later this week if you would like to see one. Thanks, Steve
     
  5. Kerry s.

    Kerry s. Is Jesus YOUR Lord?

    Hi Guys,

    John....I recognize that swinging pick-up pic!:Brow: I bought it from Indy Head Service. Does Milodon manufacture these also or for IHS?:Do No:

    To me...if, when a pan is being constructed, the bottom was first ran thru a bead roller with about 3-4 bead rolled into it...that would give the bottom enough rigidity to withstand being sucked up to the pick-up. Once a pan is complete I don't know if there is a throat deep enough to get down in there as an after thought. Adding "legs" to any pick-up is an excellent insurance policy in my opinion. To me, a 1/4" is way to close to the pan bottom....3/8" minimum to 7/16" is what I've found to work best. BUT I NO WHERE NEAR KNOW IT ALL!:)

    As far as the filled lifter valley goes....I also drill two 5/8" holes and radius them outward even with the top of the epoxy at the front of the block directly behind the timing chain in the recessed area above the cam and the oil plugs. This is for decelleration draining.

    Thanks to all for continuing this great discussion!:TU:
     
  6. jmccart

    jmccart John McCarthy

    This thread rocks! Thanx to Staged70lark for sharing his BBB tech info. Today I edited out non-tech info from this thread, and started saving it on my hard drive (just in case a computer hacker attacks before the thread covers all the goodies). I bet there are so many others out there doing the same.
     
  7. Steve Reynolds

    Steve Reynolds SRE Inc

    Oil Pickup

    Here are a few pictures of the oil pickup that I build. It's not cheap or easy to build, but it's a rock solid piece that will last a lifetime. Thanks, Steve
     

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  8. I have a question about the groove in the main journals and the extra 2 holes that get drilled in the bearings. wouldn't a 3/4 groove bearing acomplish the same thing?
     
  9. Kerry s.

    Kerry s. Is Jesus YOUR Lord?

    Steve....That's one nice looking pick-up! Of course I would expect to see anything less as far as the quality of the products and craftsmanship to provide!:TU:

    Everyone....I HIGHLY recommend Steve for ANYTHING you need constructed!

    Bob....even with the 3/4 grooved bearings you still only have one feed hole. Grooving the main saddle and adding two additional holes to the bearing can potentially triple the amount of oil to the crank and rods.:TU: I would/want to do this even in conjunction with the 3/4 grooved bearings....I can't foresee any drawbacks.:Do No:
     
  10. Kerry s.

    Kerry s. Is Jesus YOUR Lord?

    Hi Guys,

    Here are pic's of the Indy Head Service oil pick-up I disassembled, ported and added an o-ring to. I believe the problems seen by others have been due to possibly sucking air as there is only a cotterpin retaining the pick-up "tube" into the body. It swivels very freely...too freely I thought so I took it apart and found that it has nothing to seal it to the body. I had a groove machined in the "barrel" of the "tube" and o-ringed it...NO leakage now but still moves pretty free even thought the o-ring is present.:TU: I also took the liberty of porting the interior of the body as there is a hard 180* turn up and around then back into the outlet.

    Here's a pic that I took today...detail is Ok but could be better. I can try and get a closer more detailed shot if anyone would like.:TU:
     

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  11. Kerry s.

    Kerry s. Is Jesus YOUR Lord?

    Here's a close-up....
     

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  12. nitrousfish

    nitrousfish Dave Fisher

    Question

    If I was to do just the basic deal of running the #6 line from the oil pressure port to the back galley(i forget which side) is it OK to bore a hole in the block at the top of the transmission flange and run the oil line across the top of the engine instead of putting it by the starter and motor mount? Maybe use a grommet too...thanks...fish
     
  13. jamyers

    jamyers 2 gallons of fun

    I'd think that would be the way to go on a street car, it'd be easier to check the condition of the line... :Do No:
     
  14. nitrousfish

    nitrousfish Dave Fisher

    Lets crank this thread back up..

    my stuff is of less concern than the fast guys but i'm still looking for reliability. I will feel more comfortable with sending oil to the back,3/4 grooved main bearings,matched oil feed holes,double groove cam bearings and timing cover mods.

    what do i need to do to the timing cover...send it off to someone? what kind of equipment to do I need put into the oiling system for what I'm doin? I probably wont put but maybe 40 to 50 passes a year on it (mostly 1/8th mile) before I check the bearings. It's a 464 with n2o...thanks for the help...fish
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2005
  15. pglade

    pglade Well-Known Member

    The Oldsmobile guys have been cutting a .50" wide x .010 deep oil relief in both sides of the big ends of the rods for years....these rod oil reliefs are positioned at 12 oclock and 6 oclock on the FACE of the rods' big ends..not in the bearing bore area.

    Note, however, that this is done to stock rods.
     
  16. prostockpete

    prostockpete New Member

    oil system mods

    I am a newbie to this site!!! Attn John Zerucha............I am very fascinated by the grooves done to the block mains. Question... Would not a half fully grooved main bearing have the same effect as all that machining ???? Or does the lesser bearing area of the half grooved shell reduce the total bearing to crank contact surface area ?? I have a IHRA legal 455 Buick Superstocker that keeps eating up rod bearings. So I;ve got to get this fixed before next springs racing season The combination is based on a 1972 small valve, iron head, dished piston, Qjet deal . CP lite pistons, TA sportsman rods, cast crank , Calico coated bearings etc etc .. Have done all the suggested other block mods ie ( TA cover, #12 braided oil line off pump in behind flywheel to rear main, drilled gallery from sender to cam tunnel, Stef's ( 1 off ) aluminum kick out pan with pickup in rear corner, TA main girdle/ halo , TA grooved cam brgs , 20/50 grade oil ) It made 625 hp @6000 before the filter started to fill up with copper. Advise Pete
     
  17. Graham

    Graham Registered User

    Awesome thread.. 3 pics of my oil line mod. 3/8" Fullport (drilled out) 316 Stainless Swagelok Fitting Line.
     

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  18. Graham

    Graham Registered User

    ..
     

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  19. Graham

    Graham Registered User

    ...
     

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  20. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Looks nice Graham..

    I prefer braided stainless myself, for the higher vibration resistance.

    Here is how I do them in the shop.
     

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