Hi guys, I did the block thats in my car right now a long time ago. Before the back grooved cam bearings. I have a full 360 groove behind the front cam bearing and a 180 groove behind the back cam bearing also going into the driver side lifters. So if I understand all this stuff the groove in the rear cam bearing bore is probably doing more harm than good by running way to much oil to the lifters? [feeding from both ends] I have a groove in all the cam bearing bores so I can turn the clevite bearings oil holes to a better spot. I should be able to put a sleeve in the back driver side lifter gallery to block off the oil to the lifters? I also have a loose lifter bore on the passenger side, I am pretty sure its the front one [been a while] if its one of the lifter bores with the extra meat around it can I get it fixed with a thin sleeve? I have alot of cleanup with a die grinder and oil mods in this old block so I would hate to have to scrap it because of a lifter bore. I have Chevy hydraulic lifters in it, does anyone know if I can get a oversize lifter? :Comp: :3gears: Tom
Thanks Adam, That's from last year........ While the Pontiac,Mopar,And even AMC guys are getting more cylinder head options,Aftermarket Blocks,Cranks,Etc.,I'm still waiting on a block. Just doin' my part in bringing Buick performance to a screeching halt :af:
Gary any new word on your block of anyonoes block??? havent heard anything in a while. just wonderin whats goin on??? wanna borrow my 525? LOL :beer
John Massoud How hard did you turn your motor. Was it internally balanced? and what oiling mods did you go with to make it live for so long.
VERY well said Gary!:TU: And by the way....you are always a contribution to this and any other topic brought up on this board! I can only hope that my Regal will keep up with you when it's done.:TU:
Guys and Gals, I just didn't want this thread to become a debate over which engine manufacture is the best. I wanted this thread to be for those who want to make decent enough HP to go bracket racing and not have the catastrophic failure as some others have had. If anyone wants to debate the uesfullness of the BB Buick please do it on another thread. I DO NOT claim to know everything about these engines and welcome any positive input as this moves forward. I certainly do not build engines for a living therefore I wouldn't even consider myself an engine builder. I am just trying to share any and ALL information that I have put to use that has helped my engines stay together. I hold back NOTHING. My goal is to help others. If I ever decide to go IHRA Top Sportsman racing it will NOT be with the present Buick pieces that we are using now. Eventhough Dave Mongeon is making us proud by doing so! Back to the thread!!!!!!!!! Adam, If I were putting an engine together I would rather see a bit more rod side clearance than a bit less. A typical aftermarket oiling system can pump 7-9 gallons of oil per minute. So for a 10 second car that is 1.16 to 1.5 gallons of oil per pass. The goal would be to have all of that volume go through the engine. It doesn't but that would be the goal. You only want just enough oil going to the top of the engine to keep those parts from wearing and the remainder of the oil going to the crank and bearings. If you have rod side clearances to tight then the oil will not escape. To keep the bearing surface away from the crank you must keep the surface afloat with oil. We have all played air hockey before. The more air the better the puck floats on the table. The less air the puck will slow or eventually STOP. I hope this helps!!!! This is where I say pay attention to increasing the oil volume while keeping just enough pressure. I hope this helps!
So what do you runing for a oil System Has you car gone in the 7's at these time look's like you are close. Lot's of talk about Cam's and cylinder Pressure.What about cylinder Pressure at are Mile High witch is 5,800 feet or better. When we are at Bandimere Speedway it is like 7,300ft and that is a good Day for use. How much Higher would are cylinder Pressure be let's say we have 200 at 7,300ft what would it be at 1,500 ft
Make it live Terrance my motor was not internally balanced i really didnt have high tech parts in it either. the rods were eagle 6.635 BBC 2.200, The pistons were BME .038 over they were heavy 670 grams ,JE Taper wall pins also heavy. it had a JW flex plate and a Fisher balancer.the thing with this motor was the machine work, it was done like brain surgery the bob weights were all the same im talking all the same like i said all my clearances were the same to the tenths 3th on the mains and 2.7 on the rods also the crank was micro polished and it had a great 1/8 inch radius my rod and main bearings were also coated the rod bearings were clevite V bearings and the mains were clevite also. as for oil mods i ran a stefs oil pan 8 quarts this is the key to keeping these things together you need good oil control i run penzoil 25/50 racing oil my block had no extra oil holes or any holes drilled out i just lined up all the main bearing holes with the bearing holes and smoothed everything out with a die grinder, as for the front cover i ran a NOS GM cover no drilling any hole larger i just maid sure everything was real smooth and radiused the oil pump gears were glass beaded and a 1/8 inch hole drilled in the idler gear i also run an oiler that was taped into the pressure side on the inside of the cover to oil my dist. gear cuz i run a roller cam. NOW i spun this motor to 6800 and at the traps i had 80 # of oil pressure, i maid about 250 passes then id tear it down and when we checked it you could still see the marks from the bore gauge in the bearings from when we checked the clearances.this motor would still be together i i wasnt in such a rush to put it back together i should have waited for my machine shop to check the clearances in stead of me just putting the same size bearings in the rods just to make the race at cecil its a hard way to learn, after 5 passes it came apart hard and i lost everything it even broke the trans in half anyone that was there could tell you it was a crazy ride at 1000 feet out it spit all the oil on to the rear tires and it was sideways for the rest of the ride !!! I will be building that same combo again with a few more tricks be cause i want to take back the record of being the WORLDS FASTEST STAGE 1 (IRON HEADS) IVE RUN 9.57 @ 139 AND THE TIME TO BEAT IS 9.43 @ 140 ( ROB C) SO i hope this helps everybody out, and for the guys that cant keep these things together to bracket race them i have shoe boxes of 9 second time slips to prove you can with the right care taken putting these things together. P.S I also drive this thing on the street.(TORQUENS OVER) Later
Thats a better description then I could have given, thanks John. I know of circle track racers that cut slots/grooves across "the big end" of the conn. rod. Claims that without them the "old oil" can't get out so it gets hot & burns up.
So it's a cooling issue, not a lubrication issue? Assuming they aren't one and the same to some extent, which of course they are.
wouldn't the grooves (on the rod big end, not on the block) lead to cracking? I thought that was why rods are beam polished, or does that only apply to the beams? ________ Prilosec problems
OK my 2 cents... The approach I took after talking to my machine shop was~ Dry film coat everything , run tight clearences, Hi volume pump with adjustable pressure relief, do all the mods to open up the passages that are way too small, modify the pan to hold 2 more qts., half block fill, cold treat (cryo) the block and crank ( this is supposed to add 20% more strength ) girdle, crower rods ( part of the stroker kit/ after breaking a couple of stockers I went this route), grooved bearings, studs, oil pan heater, synthectic 0w30 oil and alot of attention too detail. Most of what I learned was from the first 'real' 455 I built with most of the above tricks done to it. Wasn't until the Hypereutectic piston collasped under heavy knock. My 5 year test mule. P.S. the bearings looked OK after all that time. :grin:
Forgot to add Titanium puttied the lifter valley, the oil return holes, JE light pistons and removing all flash on both the inside and out of the block. Like everyone else, I have a ton of other "goodies" like the heads and such, just trying to stick to the subject of how to make'em last.
Below are some pictures of Kerry's block. The pictures show how he has routed oil from the front of the engine (where there is plenty of oil) to the back of the engine (where its desperately needed) into the passanger side lifter galley. Without this modification number 7 and 8 rod will be oiled last. Without this modification its typically number 7 or 8 rod bearings that go first.
Its important to make sure your oil line does not interfere with your starter!!! You may also need to enlarge or go deeper with the threads in the back of the block to eliminate the possible interference of the oil line and the flywheel. Make sure all of this is done before the actual engine assembly.
This is a picture of the Scavanger oiling system that I used before I went to a totally external oil pump. You can see in the picture how I run the line to the back of the block from the Y pipe that enters the side of the block.
John Z, in the 2nd pic above (post 76), why are there 2 lines at the back of the block? One's obviously oil from the bulkhead fitting to the passenger side gallery, but what's the other braided line for?
I am pretty sure its a drain line from the lifter valley back to the pan, I think there is another one on the other side of the crank also.
John Massoud, Thank you for sharing that complete build up. knowing what I know now It sounds like that motor had no chance of staying together which makes what you were able to accomplish that much more awsome. :eek2: I look forward to hereing more on your progress on your rebuild. and the few more tricks you've learned. :Brow: John Z, Was there something wrong with the Scavenger setup they made you dicide to go with the external one.
