Another Rear Oiler Arrangement I used a single 90 Deg NPT to flare fitting at the rear gallery. Entry through the block is through a trimmed PCV grommet, to prevent chaffing of the stainless braid against the block. Tom
Block Selection Hi Everyone. Would just like to thank John for starting this thread of excellent tech. Absolutely first class!!!! A subject I have not seen much if anything discussed on is how to select a good block in the first place to begin your race motor. Other than the normal checks to cylinder bores and main housings, there must be certain things you race guys look for when selecting a block? Sorry it's kind of a back to basics question, but I for one am learning a whole lot from you guys, just need a starting point. Thanks in advance :TU:
Hi I was looking at the external oil lines that you have added. I am looking into this for my next build up. I was wondering what size the lines are? They look to be an 8 -AN, that equels a 1/2 inch line if I am correct. What have you done to your oil pumps to pump that much more volume? I have a 4-AN braided line that is the correct length to fit, if it would have enough volume to help. Instead of grooving the block like was shown in the begaining of this post would the TA 3/4 grooved bearings do the same thing. Thanks Mike
Rear Oiler Line size My lines in "another rear oiler" are 6AN (equivalent to 3/8"size). The AN fitting at front sender position is a 3/8" Npt x 6AN fuel line fitting with a 1/8" Npt side tap for a pressure sensor. Tom
Mike, The 3/4 groove bearing is a good bearing but it will not increase the VOLUME of oil to the connecting rods. Below is a picture of a 455 Buick main bearing vs a 400 pontiac main bearing. If the picture is good enough you can see how much larger the oil valley (or groove) is in the Pontiac bearing. Which will deliver more volume of oil..... A 1 inch inside diameter pipe or a 12 inch diameter pipe????? By grooving the block and adding additional oil holes allows for more volume to get to the rod bearings. Oil Groove depth and width... Buick.. .55 deep x .100 wide = .055 Pontiac.. .70 deep x .180 wide = .126 .126 divided by .055 = 2.290 I am no math guru but to me the Pontiac bearing is able to carry more then double the volume of the Buick bearing. o No: Oh... and the Pontiac journal diameter is 3.00 vs Buicks 3.25 so the Buick needs more oil than the poncho to begin with. I hope this helps
John: The math you're looking for is: Pi x radius squared. To find the area of a circle. And the bearing groove is basically 1/2 of a circle, as the walls are slightly tapered with a radius at the top. Pontiac bearing: .070" x .180" (depth x width) Buick bearing: .055" x .100" It looks to me the Pontiac bearing can flow a little more than twice the Buick bearing. When a pipe diameter doubles in size the area is increased by four times. The formula above applies more accurately to areas of true circles. To carry this over to AN size hoses: -6 hose size has an area of .4417 sq. in. 3/8" diameter -8 hose .7854 sq. in. 1/2" diameter +56% over -6 -10 hose 1.2271 sq. in. 5/8" diameter +64% over -8 -12 hose 1.7671 sq. in. 3/4" diameter +69% over -10 You can see the -12 hose has 4 times the area the -6 has. Comparing a 1/2" dia. pickup tube and galley to a 5/8" tube and galley, the 5/8" tube area increases by 64%. By widening the groove in the stock bearing alone to the .180" Pontiac bearing width and not changing the depth from its .055" would almost double the amount of oil able to be moved in the groove. Might be a real simple fix for the mild street type engines many guys are building without going to the groove in the block and extra oiling holes. You'd lose a bit of bearing load with less bearing material to support the crank. And engineering-wise I'm not sure what sort of limits the stock bearing loads with the large diameters we're working with were designed for. Something to kick around and check into with these long cold winter days creeping up :laugh: Another item to note is when modifying the oiling system, small changes make a big difference. If some of you engineering types or math majors can double check my math and keep me honest, that would be great.
Vibration Integrity Jim W, good point on the vibration aspect. Bulkhead fitting darn near mandatory for the setup. Revised plumbing. Installed new main 36" NACE Swagelok Line. Still fullport 3/8". Ok to 15,000psi, almost overkill, but solid. :Brow:
I am considering a turbo application on my 455. I've been kinda toying with the idea of dry sump, or external oil pump. Any thoughts? I am looking to keep mine mostly street, with the occasional trip to the track. I am curios as to what you guys think of external oiling options. Thanks
Epoxy in the Motor, oil bypass For guys running epoxy in their motors whether it's for lifter plates or whatever. I had exopied lifter bore plates and had problems with small pieces/chips getting into the bearings. With all the oil mods for the added oil flow, it was more than a stock style filter could handle. I had tried to get a reuseable System One metal screen oil filter but could not get the large version to fit and the small size was on back order so I had to make due with a K&N oil filter. The purpose of the System One was to allow enough oil flow so I could plug the filter bypass without choking off the oil flow. By not plugging the bypass, I had way too much trash from the epxoy getting into the bearings, scaring the bearings and crank. The Titanium epoxy that is used for the lifter plates is extremely hard and tuff. If you can't get all the oil thru a filter, there is a very good chance you will have problems. They say cleanliness is godliness with a motor, so hard epoxy chips is like the grim reaper showing up. There is too much rtv, glue, and whatever involved with putting these BBB's together that can break free and float around in the motor. Any high-flow oiling system on a race motor needs the oil bypass blocked. This mainly applies to motors running a stock oil filter plate. But to block the bypass, you need to address the filter flow issue. With all the twisting and beating these stock blocks take on a race setup, there is a good chance for the epoxy to break and chip at the edges. My plates eventually broke free at the last tear down. Two were broke free at the sides and one was sitting loose in the back of my lifter galley. I have a TA lifter bore girdle to replace it. No more epoxy for me. I was lucky not to loose the motor from the trash. If I had run tight clearances in the motor, I feel the trash could have stayed caught in the bearing and caused a bearing to gall bad enough to ball-up enough metal to sieze on the crank which would have put parts everywhere.
Good ready in hear I thought I would drag this back up to the top, there is great pic's and reading in here. Chris
good enough,just wanted to see if what i did is the same as what the other guys are doing.looks very similar,i just did the rr baffle cause the freshened motor is only going to be doing 120mph i dont have to lay on the brakes that hard.my best 60ft is 1.605 and im trying to get it in the 1.5s so i thought the rr baffle was a good idea.thanks for the pic. chris
Let's Crank this thread up again! I am about to start assembling my new engine and want to make sure sure I've done everything right. I have double groove TA cam bearings,grooved mains,oil feed line from sender port in front to passenger side rear galley,oil pressure gauged from drivers side rear galley port,TA oil pressure regulator in front cover,booster plate,1" deeper sump,5/8" pickup and main girdle in bottom end. Heads are big valve Stg 2 Tracks with a small touch up job in the chambers with a fully ported and equalized SP2 intake and 2 1/8 primary headers. I do have a question...with stock deck height and a custom solid cam with the red KB roller rockers and fresh heads,what length pushrod should I order and what is ideal diameter. What lifter do yall recommend also. Thanks...Fish
Push Rods Fish, soild cam ? if so the t/a lifters are good. and ive run into different push rod lenths with different blocks with the t/a lifters the push rod cup in the lifter is deeper so you will need a longer than stock push rod on most solid cam stuff i do they have been 9.250 but the motor i just put together they are 9.500. if i were you id check it with an adjustable push rod just to get it rite, make sure you have the rocker adjuster cup in the rite spot (no to far out or to far in) theres a post on here about that rite now. hope this helped John
Fish, Not sure what kind of spring pressures you're planning on but a .083" wall 5/16" dia. pushrod should work and clear the head holes fine. You'll get more rigidity out of a 3/8" dia. pushrod, but you may need to open the head holes up slightly. I got my pushrods from Smith Bros. The length will vary widely with these engines and all the variables of parts used so it'll need to be mocked up and measured. If you need an adj. checking pushrod, let me know, I can mail you mine.
Rod side clearance I need to know if I'm gonna kill my motor with too much rod side clearance. I'm getting .032 with a feeler gauge with eagle steel H beams. I'm getting tired of thinking I'm done with the bottom end and then I have to tear it down again..I'm spending 5 bucks in glue every time I take the ******* girdle off to fix something. I know this is what I have to deal with when it comes to race stuff but I am losing patience trying to get this damn thing done. Thanks...Fish
