Head and cam swap, guidance for a newbie?

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by MDBuick68, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. MDBuick68

    MDBuick68 Silver Level contributor

    So last year I had heads rebuilt for my stock 68 350. And Im feeling ready to tackle this! New stage1 springs, larger valves, and very mild porting and gasket matching. Nothing fancy, just to freshin the old thing up. I also have a ta212 cam and lifters thats going in also. Manifolds to 2.5 ta exhaust. 72 rear with stock gears but have a set of 3.08 and 3.42 i believe it is. Turbo350 trans.

    Ive never swapped a cam or heads before. Well i did just do my wifes 94 740i bmw v8 head gasket with success :cool: but never on a classic. I have TAs gasket set as well. So i think i have everything ready to go and would like to get it done but also need any advice i can get before I start. What guidance can you help me with guys? Throw it at me....

    Thanks Matt
     
  2. DeanTX

    DeanTX Silver Level contributor

    Torque head bolts in proper order at proper torque numbers. Be sure the intake manifold gasket has some RTV (both sides of gasket) around coolant passages. Throw away the rubber end gaskets for the intake manifold and use RTV. Run about a 3/16" bead of it on the block and then smear some with your finger on the corresponding ends of the intake manifold.
     
  3. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    My personal suggestion is pull add milling .060 off heads for about 42 cc head. No port matching as its time consuming for almost no gains at this level. 3.42 gears ,2200 converter and the crower level 3 cam .which should make more power then the 212 with stock manifolds and stock valves . Much less work and $$ for same or better power. you may Shorter pushrods depending on head gasket used. What intake and carb do you intend to use . 70 and up 2 barrel intake and carb are supposed to be bigger then 68-69 2 barrel setup.
    You could go with big valves and porting with headers, 2800 converter ,310 cam for even more power potential in the upper rpm band get the adjustable oil pressure regulator . Booster plate would not be a bad idea. And prime oil pump with drill before starting engine
     
  4. MDBuick68

    MDBuick68 Silver Level contributor

    Alec, i believe you were giving me some great advice when I posted about having the heads redone. Thank you! I didnt get too deep into head work with my budget but we got them done.
    would I still be ok with the 212? Unfortunately with my poor budget i can only do about 1 thing to the car a year. Ive had this cam on the shelf for years so it was nice not having to purchase another one. The shop did put larger valves in them, (exhaust if i remeber) what do I have to do to get .060 off? Do they have to disassemble them again to do it? Im just hoping it wont cost much. The intake is a stock 4bbl, not sure of the year, since i installed it 15+yrs ago. Rebuilt Qjet. And The head gasket I have Is i believe factory size? I purchased the full gasket kit from TA with everything.
    I dont want to get too far into it money wise, otherwise It will sit for years and I'll never get to enjoy the car with my kid. just want to spiff it up a little and be able to enjoy it.
    My next step is either having the 3.42s installed or getting a converter. I can only do one right now.
     
  5. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    The head rebuilder should be able to resurface head. They can mill extra off. Ta did have the factory steel gaskets for 68-70 engines. Ta also offered fel pro gaskets. Each gasket has different thickness and enough to change compression a fair amount. That's why I mention it. If you can only get one thing done get the 3.42. It will feel much more responsive with it
     
  6. MDBuick68

    MDBuick68 Silver Level contributor

    Ok so I just dug up the box, and the kit is the TA 1705, fel pro gaskets. What would that mean as far as milling the heads? And how would I know if im in need of shorter push rods if I have them milled?
     
  7. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    Depends on him much you shave off head. Factory steel head gaskets are .020 thick. Felpro gaskets are about .045. So .025 is just to account for difference in gasket. It may not effect you but if it does you may have low vacuum and lack of power due to valves not closing completely. My calculation assum you piston depth at .058 as my 71 and a few other engines with .045 gasket 24cc dish in piston and estamite of 42 cc head (which would have to be measured)with .060 shaved come to about 9.4 to 1 or .030 off head for estimated 50 cc head and about 8.75 compression and be safe as far as low octane fuel and possible issue of pushrod length
     
  8. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    I say skip milling the heads and use the 212 cam it will work great... Milling the heads a lot opens up issues like the pushrods and intake fitment and I don't think it's worth it in your case. Sure there may be other cams that could be a tiny bit better than the 212 but I have never heard anyone that was disappointed in the 212 they work great.
     
  9. DeanTX

    DeanTX Silver Level contributor

    I agree, run the TA212. As long as you are 8.5 to just over 9.0 or better for compression you will be happy, at least for a while.
     
  10. MDBuick68

    MDBuick68 Silver Level contributor

    Thats why I was hoping the 212 would be fine as is, its been paid for years ago and that helps my budget. Believe me I would love to throw money at it and have a badass motor but its just not within my planetary alignment. Gotta work with what I can afford. Which brings me to parts, is there anything else I might need while Im doin this? I want to have everything ready.
    So far i have...
    -Heads obviously
    -Full gasket kit from TA
    -New Lifters and 212cam
    -timing chain was done about 5yrs ago, 5,000miles or so
    Anything i should do with the timing cover?

    Now i can bolt up the heads, but I've never installed a cam... I think thats where I need the most help

    Thanks
     
  11. tinker14bs

    tinker14bs Well-Known Member

    If you don't already have it, you may need to get an adjustable timing cog. When you install the new cam I would replace at a minimum the front cam bearing with a dual groove TA cam bearing. Being careful to line up the oiling holes correctly. You'll also have to degree the cam when you install it. In a perfect world you could just line up the two dots on the timing chain wheels, but I have installed two cams in my engine and neither were perfect and needed the adjustable timing cog. A lot of threads for degreeing cam. Also follow the cam break in procedure after install.

    Tools to degree cam...
    degree wheel with crank adapter
    degree wheel pointer (wire works)
    magnetic base with indicator attachment
    dial indicator with 1" minimum travel in thousandths increments
    indicator tips (Think I used round tip on lip of lifter)
     
  12. MDBuick68

    MDBuick68 Silver Level contributor

    Thats begining to feel intimidating. I have done many repairs in my years, body work, interior, suspension, etc, but when it comes to, precise degrees, angles, measurements and all that jazz, i get lost easy. I think thats why ive never really dug deep into a motor. Also learning on my own never having anyone around in person to wrench with makes it more intimidating not knowing if im doing it right. I may need to do a lot more reading on this before i tear it down.
     
  13. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Actually, it's pretty simple.
    If need be you can use the balancer to verify a timing event after verifying the balancer itself (also simple).
    If you've changed top end on an import, you should have no troubles here.
    The multi-keyway timing set gives you a few choices to work with.
    You really are just making sure it's not WAY off, as it could be.
    Within a couple degrees is fine.
    For a mild cam NA deal, a little advance in cam position isn't a biggie. A lot of retard could be detrimental.
    An inexpensive indicator set up is very helpful.
     
  14. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

  15. MDBuick68

    MDBuick68 Silver Level contributor

    First off, you guys are awesome, thank you, I can tell you know what you're talking about! Even though its getting beyond me lol. What if I just left the cam out of the equasion? It may be more than I can deal with at the time anyways. Heres the deal, If I had the funds, i would just drop the motor off at a builder and have an awesome motor built but thats not gonna happen. If I could leave it as is and enjoy it just as i have for 19 years now I would. The reason i had heads built was because mine were going down hill, been having valve trouble from the rt head and I had a free set so i saved up and had them rebuilt. The cam I have is something I bought some 10yrs ago so I figured it would be a good time to use it. I dont have to use it, but I cant go and buy another one. Im not financially comfortable having all sorts a work done that may cause a snowball effect and cause it to be out of commission for a year. I just want to keep enjoying it with my kid like we do now.
    The main thing to me is getting the heads swapped out. Is that an option for now? And just worry about the cam and other performance upgrades later?
     
  16. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    HI Matt,

    If I were you I would find someone in your area that can help you check the degree on the camshaft. For your purpose you do not need an adjustable keyway timing set you just need to check and confirm that the cam is roughly where it needs to be... One degree plus or minus will not hurt anything in your application.

    If you find a guy in your area with the degreeing tools then just pay him a bit to watch over your shoulder and help make sure the cam is not right out of whack. It should not take long.
     
  17. MDBuick68

    MDBuick68 Silver Level contributor

    yes, I think that would be a good Idea. Crappy thing is I dont know anybody that would know this. Im the only one in my family/friend circle that even has tools lol! It might have be a craigslist thing *cringe*
    I'll just have to get my face in the books and start reading about this. Im sure its not as hard as it sounds and once I familiarize myself with it it will come together.
     
  18. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    If your that far into head swap might as well do cam since there,
    . its not much more work. Get comp cams break in additive or similar zzpd additive. STP blue has it also. Mostly a weekend job for an experienced mechanic. Did you have an electronic ignition? Recurve kit for distributer? It small stuff that can be added later ,stuff to consider
     
  19. MDBuick68

    MDBuick68 Silver Level contributor

    Thanks, no its still the stock points ignition.
     
  20. MDBuick68

    MDBuick68 Silver Level contributor

    Well shoot, I've been looking/asking around my town and not having any luck with finding someone able to assist in this. Bummer. I think I'll just go ahead and put the heads on and drive it as it has been. I'll worry about the cam some other time when I have a better understanding of it. I dont feel comfortable attempting it on my own and having something go wrong and not knowing where to go from there. Which brings me to a different question, what is the recommended paint for the intake/heads? I would like to keep it red.
     

Share This Page