Fresh motor problems

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by FCOOFRAZ3, May 19, 2004.


    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    I had the convertor looked into Dave Schwinn of Atlantic Coast Converters said that I had messed up some of the fin angles in the converters turbine and that had caused me to keep burning up the trans. I have since then sacraficed and gotten the th400 with hipster brake and the original 8 inch converter to put back into the car. He is fixing the 9 inch like 10 inch buick stated in his reply 3000-3400 on motor and 4400 on nitrous. I hop that it works out right for me so what I am going to do is take my time and make a few passes and then when he gets the converter done I will then make the change back to the 9 inch deal but he swear that the 8 inch will perform but is borderline for the application. He runs the super stock class and runs 6.32 with a 455 pontiac motor.
  2. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    Don't Super Stock race between 2600-3000 lbs? Did he say what rpms he was running going 6.32? A 8" just wont lock up enough before you run past your power band. I would think with nitrous you would have to be able to turn the motor to 7500 for that converter to tighten up. On motor is a different story altogether.

    I guess its good they found a problem but it sucks that you had one in the first place. The new setup on the converter should work out great on the nitrous especially since you are going with a transbrake setup.

    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    He says that he shifts from 1-2 at 6000 rpms and the 2-3 shift at 6500 rpms. The car is a full bodied camaro 1984 model and he says it weighs in at 3400 pounds. I was going to try the 8 inch converter but them I will lay off of this weekend and try the nine incher next weekend. I had to change the springs on the back of the car because it was unloading with the 150 pound springs skipping the tires after the initial launch so I went with the 130 pound springs. and will let the front end have some kind of travel to it. We had the front with any travel because of the way the back was before the ladder bars. We jetted the carb back down and noe the beast don't rev as hard as it did before. I have to send my carb back to Barry Grant because the screws to the float bowls are stripped out. I really want to see those 6.70's on motor and really need some help to get to this goal. On the brake where should I leave with the car.
  4. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    A ladder bar should not unload the tires if it is set up right. The bottom of the bars should be parallel with the frame +/- a degree. Now if the track sucks and your just blowing the tire off thats different. Did you have wheel hop? or tire shake? I've never heard of wheel hop with a ladder bar. If actually have wheel hop something is not setup right. If you have shake then the cross bar for the ladder bars is not supported well enough and is flexing. Also did you have your axle tubes welded to the center section?
    Did you get the mid plates installed?

    On the transbrake, try to leave at 3800-4000 on motor if you can. On nitrous you can try 3400 with a nitrous window switch turning on the nitrous at 3600. You do NOT want to be on a tran brake with the nitrous FLOWING! If it "hits" too hard/violent try to RAISE the rpm of both nitrous and motor by 200-300. This will reduce the flash on the converter making it leave softer.
  5. badbuik

    badbuik Well-Known Member

    I'm trying to avoid this "Thread" but sometimes get sucked in, so I'm only going to touch on the nitrous/ trans. brake area. You can use 2 relays to prevent "squeezing" while on the brake. You run power thru the trans brake relay, then when TB button is released power is sent to the relay for the nitrous system, every thing will work seperately, but when the unit is armed, then it's a different story. I'm not going to try and explain it, but I could FAX a schematic to whoever my want it, it works great, very cheap to do. Plus leaving from the brake onto the bottle is FUN! Last time I did it with the 200 shot my 60 foots went from a 1.42 to a 1.35, front end about 2 feet in the air, and thats not ladder bars, Southsides and an air bag. Converter is a 9 in 4500 stall, 3600 pound car and has gone quicker than the 6.7s on motor and quicker than 6.3 on the unit.
    Gary G
  6. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    Gary that's a great way to do it on a budget. Basically it's 2 relays in series and the relay off the transbrake is wired so that when power is removed it closes the curcuit to power the solenoids and the first relay it wired standard when the WOT curcuit is grounded and the system is armed it sends power to the second solenoid.

    Thats what you ment , right?

    The benefit of the window switch is you can have the nitrous switch off before it hits the rev limiter.
  7. 10inchbuick

    10inchbuick Midwest Buick Mafia

    With out seeing a video of the car it's hard to tell but it could be running the tires over causing the shake.If it is unloading the suspension you need to tighten up the rebound/extention of the rear shocks this will also help the tire issue.You will need some front suspension travel it's hard to say how much but to start the weight transfer there has to be at least 1-2 inches.The way Gary mentions for the nitrous/transbrake wiring is excellent it works very well if the car hooks look out cause it's gonna leave hard this way you can give the suspension all you have and tune it from there.

    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    The track really sucked on that day so the car and no other car hooked up out there. I will be taking it to Fayetteville on friday if possible to try and get it dialed in. I have to get a switch to turn the nos off if I try to put the relay thing on. I have had the center section welded and changed the springs on the car. I had taken all of the travel out of the front end but have found out that it must have some to transfer the weight. I know that the car is setup right because that is all that he does and is one of the best in the business. I feel that I need to rejet the carb to a bigger jet size also because the car does not rev like it did with the 90s in it. I currently have some 87h square. I would appreciate the diagram for nos relay wiring of transbrake to activation.
  9. badbuik

    badbuik Well-Known Member

    I'll see if I can send you the wiring schematic Mon. or Tues. If you have a FAX number I could send it to you on Tues. Otherwise I'll try and get it posted on this Board for you and others to see. You'll need a relay, like 30 amp, with the 87 and 87a terminals, one has power "normally open", and the other has power "normally closed". I bought one and it had 2 of the 87 terminals, that is not what you want.
    Gary G.
  10. badbuik

    badbuik Well-Known Member

    Nitrous/Trans brake wiring schematic. I know it works, I'm using it and have shown others and they thought it was good.
    Gary G.

    Attached Files:


    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    I would really like to get that wiring diagram. I have the two relays that comes with the NOS kits. The fax number is 910-654-4701. I was wondering did I have to go up in jet in the carb because I pulled the plugs out after a full pass and drive up the return lane and they were sjust as white as I had brought them out of the store. I wonder why? Is the 87 size jets not enough. remeber I have no power valves from nor back.
  12. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member


    Your plugs should be white if its in tune but that doesn't mean its not a little lean. Only go up 2 jet sizes at a time, otherwise you could miss the sweet spot. Don't rely on your free rev for your jetting since there is no load that reduces the signal at the jet and a motor will free rev a little better rich but run worse under load. Make jet changes off your MPH. Then if you must, you can fine tune your air bleeds off your et. Anything more than 3 sizes on your air bleeds might require a jet change by 1 or 2.

    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    I have the MSD relays for my setup of transbrake to nitrous setup. Only thing that I am going to do is not have the carb switch but the button hooked up so if I don't want to spray then I won't.
  14. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    Wire through the WOT switch and the button. That way you don't have any accidents if your not at WOT.

    On your front suspension, you need the travel up front to get the weight on thet back tires. If you were running a 14" tire in the back that would be different. On a 10" tire, you can only get away with taking away most of your travel if your converter is perfect but thats not likely on your first converter since there are too many variables to account for to get it right for your combination.
    The best thing to start out with are a good set of 12 way adjustable shocks. With travel limiters I got really bad tire shake. Once I went to the 12 way shocks and put most of the travel back in the front, the car did much better. No shake.

    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    I have the koni double adjustables in the back and some koni 3 way shocks in the front. I have the front limiters all the way in for no travel but I will take them out and then try it from there. I don't have the wot throttle switch on the carb because I like the button better for a fail safe reason if the gas pedal gets stuck then the nos is still spraying. I have the button where i can hold it while the transbrake is on and then when released the fire goes to the nos button.I know that the setup is right just got to get the weight to transfer to the back wheels. I will be going to fayetteville on friday to get this thing tuned in. I hope that I can get it dialed in like it needs to be. I am really concerned about the carb though. It really does not seem right to me but it might be right. I won't know until I try it.
  16. jimmy

    jimmy Low-Tech Dinosaur

    FCOOFRAZ3, Are you still going to the Fayetteville track on friday night?

    A friend of mine is planning on going and I can contact him to look you up when you are there. He is not NOS freindly but has a 69 GS street car that is running 7.1 in the 1/8.

    What does your car look like?

    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    Yeah I am still planning on going to Fayetteville tomorrow. I have a blue 1983 regal with a dent in the fender and no bumper and grille. I tried to wire that nitrous turning on after the transbrake is realeased and could not get the two to work so I left it alone. I need to get a shemick that will give me detail illustration of how to do the wiring.
  18. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    Relay Help

    On the bottom of almost all relays there is a number next to each of the pins so you know WHAT to connect to WHERE. You'll have to pull the plug off the bottom of NOS relay to see the numbers.

    Transbrake Relay:

    Pin #30. Run off your battery or a switched source that can handle 20amps to the transbrake relay #30.

    Take the 12 volt+ wire that was going from the transbrake button to the transbrake and cut it. Now run from the button to #85 on the relay. Run from 87(12 volt+) to the transbrake.

    Pin 86. Ground(-) to a good ground anywhere neareby on the body.
    Your trans brake should now work through the relay.

    Nitrous relay:

    87a on transbrake relay to 30 on nitrous relay. Run a high current lead between 87a on the transbrake relay to #30 on the nitrous relay.

    (-) Ground, 86. Run a ground off you engine(or grounding point) to your WOT(optional in your case) then from the WOT to you fuel safety switch, from your fuel safety switch to your Ground(-) 86 on the Nitrous relay. This will require you to be at WOT and for 5psi fuel pressure for the ground curcuit to be completed to activate the relay.

    12v+ Switched power, 85. Run 12v+ to your nitrous on/off switch, from the on/off switch to the Nitrous Activation Button. Run from the button to 85 on the relay. THis will require 12v, ON, and Button being pressed to activate the relay. SO...12v, ON, Button, WOT, 5psi will all be required for the nitrous relay to apply 12v+ power to 87(nitrous solenoids).

    87(12v+) to nitrous solenoids. Run from 87 to both the nitrous/fuel solenoids.

    THis will get power to your solenoids as shown in the diagram.

    Now just connect all the (-) ground wires off the soleniods together and ground them to a carb stud or another good ground source.

    All you have to do is turn it on and let go of the transbrake button. It will also work if you do not used the transbrake. 30 to 87a on the relay are a direct contact when there is NO SWITCHED power going to 85. So any time the transbrake buttoned is NOT pressed, you have power going to the nitrous relay. In other word, power from the transbrake button only interrupts power to the nitrous relay while the transbrake is powered.

    On the relay: 85(12v+) and 86 (ground-) is only to actuate the switch in the relay. It does not send power to anything.
    30, 87, and 87a. 30 is power going into the relay. 87 and 87a is power going out. 87a is always hot if 30 is hot when there is no power going to pin 85. 12volts to 85 = 12volts to 87.
  19. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member


    I did not like my 3 way front shocks. Even set to there firmest setting they where too soft. I couldn't keep it front jumping too high coming out of the hole and travel limiters would just give me tire shake or wouldn't hook. Having more adjustablilty fixed it and it kept me from having a bounce coming down off the back wheels. It also helped keep my oil pan in one piece. THey allow you to adjust them in the car for good and bad track conditions.
    This is just feedback, if you can get the cheeper stuff to work that's great and will leave money for other things. But remember this for future reference. :TU:

    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    I took the car to fayetteville and it was very impressive at a 6.89 with a 1.58 60ft time on it. I took the limiters all the way out of the front. I did not get a chance to spray the thing because the wiring to the nos was not working and then the alternator is wired up backwards on it so I could not get a good charge. I was leaving of the transbrake at 3600 but had to footbrake it because the fuse blew in the switch. I could not really shift the car because I need to put a shifter into the car. I am still using the forward pattern zgate shifter.

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