Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by FCOOFRAZ3, May 19, 2004.
I will be trying it on Sunday and it was not getting no gas to the back barrels of the carburator.
I looked up your 1000 silver claw and stock its suppose to have 85 w/ power valve in front and 93 no power valve in the rear, with .031 air bleeds in the mains and .070 in the idle air bleeds.
So, I would start off with 93's front and rear with no power valves and jet extensions only in the rear. If it came with 98 jets in the rear, than there wrong or it has alot larger air bleeds than it should. This is just a base line for tuning reference. Good luck at the track. By now I'm sure your ready for some better times more than we are. :TU:
If you leave the bottle at home, you wont get tempted/pressured into using it. Thats the only way you'll stay out of trouble. :blast: At least thats what works for me because if I have a bottle of juice with me, I wont go home until its empty or I break something from putting the car on the bumper.:Brow:
I took the car to the track and it went 6.96 with a stumbling carb and the trans was slipping. The guy went into the carb and put 85h jets in the front and god knows what in the back. But the car went some really good numbers. I don't know the 60 foot time but it had to be pretty dam good with that number. I am wondering if I put some rollers on it would that speed it up. I want the BBB to run some 6.70's on its own the touch the nos on it. What do u recommend me to do to get this number.
On the th400, go to a manual valve body. Consider getting one with a transbrake since you might have to go through the tranny anyways. You have to do intenal mods for a trans brake.
On the carb, I hope with the 85's up front you had the power valve back in. 85 is the stock jet but with a power valve. With it plugged you will probably end up in th 90-93 range. THis will be the same for front and rear. As for the stumble, you will have to up the squirter size from a 31 to about a 35-37. You can also get a accelerator pump cam kit. It is an assortment of plastic "cams" that actuate the pump lever. They have a more agressive profiles that will provide a quicker shot of fuel which is needed for race cars with loose converters. The pump cams are universal between Holley and Barry Grant carbs.
Good to hear you got that beast into the 6's finally. As long as you keep tuning on it the times will come down. work on the tire pressure to get that 60 ft times down and that carb dialed in to the motor. When dialing in the carb, watch the MPH not the et. Et will tend to vary more but the MPH will show you when the motor is making more power. Adjust your jetting up and down until you get the best MPH.
Did you get those roller rocker yet? They would help. But if yo u go to 1.65 or 1.7's instead of 1.6 ration you will probably have to pull the heads to elongate the pushrod hole in the head. As you get more aggressive with the rocker ratio, the pushrod moves closer to the rocker shaft and the pushrod hole wont allow it. With iron heads you wont see any difference in 1.6 over 1.65 or 1.7's since the heads dont breath any better at higher lift. Plus you might run into spring problems and valve guide clearance problems. just something to consider. Good luck with it and keep us up to date. :TU:
That is good to know. They told me that for the weather it is jetted at the best thing but I will try and up the jets to 90's. What is the retard on nos suppose to be when you are shooting 225 horsepower. I have also been using some propelyne fuel additive to the c16 that I have been using. I want to go back and try the 8 inch converter and see if there is any difference with it.
I wouldn't spray it with propolyne oxide in the tank that stuff is pretty touchy on nitrous you will hurt the motor if the tune is not right.Run it on the c16 only.They recomend 2 deg for every 50 hp so this would be 5 to 6 deg.I think a 8 inch convertor would be to loose it will blow the tires off on nitrous and you might drive through the covertor on the big endl
Please step away from the 8"!:rant: Going to a looser converter WILL slow you down. THe nitrous+Big Block+heavy Buick will push right through it. It will act like a slipping clutch. Stick with the tight converter. It will get nice and loose on nitrous. YOu may pick up a tenth on motor but you will be slower on nitrous. Don't listen to all those guys that race small blocks. I'm not here to tell you how to go slower. The only way that 8" might be faster is if the converter you have is complete junk.
On the jetting start at 90 front and back with both power valves PLUGGED. What is your current carb set up? I can't believe they had to jet down the carb to 85's with the power valves plugged. If it runs good like that try going up 2 jets sizes at a time. It just doesn't sound right considering whats stock.
With the 225 shot pull out 8 degrees with your MSD box. If you have no problems showing on the plugs add 2 degrees of timing. YOu will have to hook the trigger wire from the soleniods or relay to the MSD box so in knows to take out the timing when the nitrous is activated. With the .082 nitrous / .091 fuel (225 jets) run 5 1/2 psi fuel pressure. Order/borrow a .073 and .082 jet so you can square the jets on the plate. When/if you go to try this, start at the 175 with a .073/.073 and run 6 psi. This might run better than the 225 jetted .082/.091. You wont need over 110 octane. If you run too much octane it will slow you down.
175 shot = 4-6 degrees retard
225 shot = 6-8
275 shot = 8-10
Your only running 11.0 comp so you can go to the low side of the timing retard.
What gaskets are you running?
Whats the staus of your transmission?
What type 8" is it? Whats the rated stall?
opps brain fart on the timing sorry
Timing retard is a little combination dependent. So, let say he gets away with 5-6 degrees retard doesn't mean the next guy will. If the same combination had 12.5-13.5 compression you would may have to go 8-9 degrees retard because the higher cylinder pressure will cause a faster burn. So 5-6 isn't necessarly wrong, I just wouldn't start there. Your right about burning up motors with propolyne when used with nitrous. YOu can add all the oxygen the motor needs with nitrous so its a waste of money and it's hard to tune. You have to know how to change the nitrous fuel pressure and jetting to compensate for the fuel. No WAY!
On the converter, I believe he will push through it but it will be less likely to blow the tires off. Even if it stalls to say 5500-5800, because it is an 8" it has less torque multiplication and won't lock up as fast as a 9 or 10", it makes it hit very "soft" but is more likely to slip on the top end under more power. My 10" hits alot harder than my 9" did. I never had a problem 60ft'ing with my 9" but i didn't get one 60 ft to hook with the 10". 4800 flash on the 10" and 5800 flash on the 9". I had no problem putting my car on the bumper with my 9" but thats because it locked up slower and allowed the weight to transfer and the tires to plant before it started to tighten up. It did have alot more slip though and would hit the shift light with the 28" tires going through the 1/8 mi. I should not have been hitting 6800-7000 w/4.30 gears going 120-2mph.
If the 8" is tight enough AND the car will not hook AT ALL with the other converter would be the only reason i would try it. But that would be a last resort alternative. Going to the 8" means you had to slow the car down in order to get it down the track.
Don't get me wrong, the 8" can be used for nitrous application. There are plenty of nitrous guys doing it but that because the have light cars with small blocks that don't have the torque and can turn the rpms to us it effectively.
That is good to know so don't go with the 8 inch converter. What are the things that I need to do to get the car down to 6.70's on motor with the current combination and what would cause the trans to hit hard in 1-2 shift and then glide into 2-3 shift. I figure that the car will run some 6.80 or better on the motor. My guy said the jetting that u are talking about is for a dominator carb but I told him that u know that it is a 1000cfm Silver calw carb.
When are u coming home from there. I am trying to handle these boys until u come and are there any other of u're Buick buddies currently around holding it down.
Do u think that a new set of headers will help out the ones I havehas a 2" split on the back tube. And what about the roller rocker deal.
I am running regular fel pro gaskets. THe 8" is a 4200 stahl but I have been the fastest with the 9" converter.
The only other serious Buick guy is in Afganhistan. Just for reference a Holley 950 HP goes between 86-88 with the power valves blocked and that keeps it jetted around stock. How many jetting adjustment did you make? Its your car, Change the jets at the house and try it at the track. That way they won't know you did anything and won't have to take any slack.
The slipping 2-3 shift could be a few things. What kind of valve body are you running. Automatic or manual? Any work or mods been done to the tranny? Was the trans sitting around long without use. Make sure the fluid level is right. What type fluid are you running, I recommend type F tranny fluid. Its a Ford tranny fluid. It will make it shift harder or at least better. I've run it in all my race transmissions.
I wont be back until Mid December or maybe a little later.
Start on that 175 shot with fel pros and take out the 6 degrees. Tune the small shot to run good and at least get some good #'s under your belt in case you run into gasket problems with a bigger shot.
You should have some better #'s in it but if your converters tight, your going to be giving up a little so keep that in mind. YOu can try 38 degrees timing since your cams a bit big. That might pick it up a little more. Get a few more Test n' tunes at the track to finish sorting out the bugs, shift points, and tune up. If you can't get the 2-3 shift to hit it will burn up when you try to spray it.
The 2" headers should be ok. 2 1/8 would be better with nirtrous. You should see about getting that header fixed. Tim B. that owns Chassis Works on Cunmberland rd is the guy to go to for welding. He can also make custom headers but they are expensive. I'm sorry I can't be there to give you a hand.
On the roller rockers, anything over 1.6 rocker ratio needs the pushrod hole elongated to keep the pushrod from pulling out of the seat of the rocker when the valve is closed. It will screw you up on your lash adjustment. I would think the roller rockers would be worth at least a tenth with a cam that big. You never said if you got your hands on a set or not.
No I have not gotten my hands on no rollers yet but am looking for some. The tranny has been sitting up for awhile and I think it might need a strainer change. Well I will try and get to the track if it does not rain. I will let u know the out come.
I tried to spray that thing and it blew through high gear. I have a guy named Donald Strickland going to make me some headrers for it. He builds race cars for a living. He is well recognized on this end and yours too. I believe that I need to change th plugs in that thing also. I gaps them at 35 degrees
Still in ONE piece......
Well, what do you think of your converter and 4.10 gears now?
Did you mean .035 on the spark plug gap? I run .040 with no problems. Unless you were dropping spark at the plug, .035 will be fine. Gap is for compression/cylinder pressure. With your cam and compression, you probably need at least .035". I tried using a recommended .030" gap on my plugs and it actually started missing so I stayed with my .040". So try going both ways with the gap. It will be obvious which works and which doesn't. Be careful of how you beat that motor. Running a bad tune can beat the main caps right out of the block just as easy as too much horsepower. If its starts running "ruff" get out of the throttle and fix it.
Any runs were it hooked and ran good down the track? How did it run? I take that it stayed in one piece, head gaskets and all......?
What HP shot did you try? Where you impressed? Did it 60ft good? I take it you ate the tranny.... Well they are cheep to build at your level with the right parts. What size headers? The name sound familiar. If it doesn't work out, go to Chassis Work on Cumberland and have Tim B build you a set. He is an Excellent tig welder.
The car hooked up and I got out of it on the big end for a 6.92 but there is more there. I shot the nos and did not get a full pass on the thing. it statrted to spin the tires so I got out of it right after that. I got the 175 shot on it. I will be going up soon as I get it to hbook up. I have a few good grudge runs that don't believe in Buicks so I have to show them.
How low do you have the car sitting in the rear? Get it as low as you can, I don't care if you have to run clamps on the springs. If it the wheels will fit, slam it! You will have to be running an anti-roll bar to keep the springs from falling out from bad twist. If you can, put a set of Moroso drag spring up front to get the weight back quicker and/or a launch timing retard to give it time to plant the tires before all the power comes in. I've heard alot of complaints about the track prep at Fayetteville. Have you tried going to Thunder Valley in Red Springs. I like to go there on race day and run time trials before a race since the track prep is pretty good. If you get there when they open you can get 3 hrs of test-n-tune in before the race program starts. That way you get away from test and tune night where the track turns to crap from all the radial cars tairing up the 60ft and imports dragging water up the lanes. It only 25 minutes from Fayetteville track or you can go 45 minutes in the opposite direction to Dunn Benson Or 1hr 15 mins to Rockingham. There's about 4 others if those don't work. Good luck, its still getting faster. :Brow:
Another tip to keep it straight. Take out all the rubber body mounts. The body only "floats" on the rubber mounts so if you take them out and put Aluminum block's in there place is will make the car alot more ridged. The floating nut in the body sticks down a little so the hole in the block has to be large enough for the pin to sit on the hole otherwise the block tightens up to the "floating" nut and not the body whch means it can still move when its tight.
How old are your slicks? What size are they?
The car is as low as i can safetly get it. It cocks to one side really bad. I do not have an anti roll bar in the car. I run 28x10.5 inch slicks. I am trying to get this problem corrected before next sunday. I suppose to have three big runs but the car won't take the horsepower. It keep tearing up transmissions.
Are you running a th400 or th350. A th350 wont take the nitrous abuse. You should be able to get a buildable th400 for $75-100. A th400 is pretty hard to break when built right. You shouldn't have any problems. If you have them shifting too hard they will roll over the sprag.
Get an anti-roll bar in that thing or put ladder bars on it. Ladder bars don't need an anti-role bar. They will both cost about the same but the ladder bar will 60ft much better than what you have. good luck with it.
I have an th400 in the car and has been breaking them every since I have had the car together with this much power. It cracks them from all the body twisting that it does. I have the ladder bars to put on it but needs some more hardware to install. I was wondering could I just put the coilover shocks on the car without the ladder bars and stop some of the body roll.
The coilovers I don't think will help any since they won't do what you need to keep the twist under control. They may dampin the shock some but won't stop the twist. When you put the ladder bars on, make sure to weld the axle tubes to the center section. I've seen the center section brake loose from the tube and rotate into the floar board which can trash the drive shaft and brake the transmission.
On the transmission cases, I made "ears" to go between the transmission and the frame. I have an extra blank set cut out at my house. Theres's a bracket for each side that bolts to the outside of the transmission bell housing using the lower 2 mount bolts. They are already trimmed to go around the headers. All that would have to be done would be to weld a piece of angle to the frame and drill two holes through the aluminum brackes and the angles for bolts.
Another thing that might help would be tieing the body and frame together better with solid mounts. AND/OR going to an JW Ultra bell for a bell housing.