Cylinder heads

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by gmcgruther, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    I have a question about 455 cylinder heads, I understand that the Stage 1 heads flow more, but you guy's are always saying put stage 1 valves in standard 455 heads and they are the same!!! How can that be? The flow might be the same but the velocity will not be, unless its the vary same casting!!! I want to know what the flow cfm difference in both of them. I'm interested in this engine more then you know. I have soul heartly decide to see what is the difference's in the heads and rods. please respond.
     
  2. sriley531

    sriley531 M.M.O.G.

    There was no difference in the bowl or runners from the stage 1 heads to the same year small-valve heads. Therefore, the valve size was the only difference.
     
  3. staged70

    staged70 RIP

    The stage 1 and standard 455 used the same casting. There is also a difference in the combustion chamber to unshroud the intake valve check this site
    wwwbuickperformance.com you can look through the site and George is very knowledgeable. He has pictures and part numbers posted on the heads and blocks and pretty much anything your asking about
     
  4. sriley531

    sriley531 M.M.O.G.

    I guess I could've condensed my rambling by simply saying they used the same casting, the difference was valve related. Thanks for clarifying John:TU:
     
  5. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    You are asking questions that have been discussed on this site many times over. Use the Search function. You will find plenty to read. This is good for starters though.

    http://www.buickperformance.com/455hdcompare.htm
     
  6. 462 Chevelle

    462 Chevelle 462 chevelle

    the valves on my engine are nearly touching like that and if you measure them with a caliper theyre only 2.00 what does that mean? maybe my caliper is innacurate and they have stg 1 valves
     
  7. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    By lookin at those ports, (Intake and exhaust) Why hasn't anyone made major design improvement? I know T/A performance has made there design, but I see there can be raised ports, relocated valves possible canted and splayed, Ports made bigger, not the enterance's either the inner ports. and so on. I love designin stuff like this on paper and takin it to cylinder head makers like T/A, Eddy, Profiler, Dart and so on to see what they think and possible get it done for people like you guys and me..
     
  8. RG67BEAST

    RG67BEAST Platinum Level Contributor

    The TA int ports are alot bigger than any factory BBB head. Their stg1 and stg2 heads are made to use stock valves and rockers. No canted valves here. TA also has raised int port heads but require a different intake (sp2). You can order bigger valves than the stg1 size before TA installs the seats. TA has addressed all these issues. There is also other heads available from TA like stg3, stg4 and I'm pretty sure there is a stg5 head too but require further modifications. Use the search function and check out the TA site.
    And no all BBB heads are not the same. The largest is the big port heads made in 67/some 68's, the 73/74 heads have a very small CSR at the pushrod pinch. Smaller than the 68-72's.
    Ray
     
  9. RG67BEAST

    RG67BEAST Platinum Level Contributor

    I used the SEARCH funtion and found this thread. HERE. Post #4 by DaWildcat shows articles of the differences of factory heads. I found it to be right on the $ when comparing 860 73's and big port 983's as well as other year heads.
    Most people have their heads ported so their is little flow difference between the castings afterward. But a Buick head porter will know where the deficiencies are for different year heads. Thus saving porting time and :dollar: .
    Ray
     
  10. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    Why has'nt anyone tried canted and splayed valve set up yet? I had done some drawings 9 yrs ago on a Ford F.E. heads, canted and splayed valve, will lets say I was stupid for not start asking around because two yrs ago a company out west made a custom set billet wet heads to the same as my drawings and they flow way beyound any head avaible for the F.E. engine. Going Canted and splayed can and will flow better then any head that is standard 15 to 23 degree valve angle! Like I said Darin Morgan has proven without a doubt what can be done, look at his cylinder heads, chevy, ford, Dodge, pontiac, and so on. I would like to see what can happen there on the BBB heads. I thank you for the port size difference's and the links. I just think there is more left in buick heads then what we think. I'll contact Darin Morgan and ask whats he thinks and put what he said on here ok.
     
  11. mltdwn12

    mltdwn12 Platinum Level Contributor

    I think the reason you don't see the canted valve heads is simply a matter of cost vs. demand. It's a big investment to have custom heads designed, molds built, cast and finally machined. We're lucky TA makes what they do for us. I'm sure guys like Rod with the blown Regal could use them, but I'd think most guys can make 800+ horse with a good set of Stage 2 heads.
     
  12. K0K0

    K0K0 Jamie

    I agree unless you are going full on racing the cost of canted valve heads with custom rockers and valve covers(unless bbc or Ford were used).With this an new intake might be needed aswell pushrod angles would need to be addressed.
    The canted valve heads i have seen are wider than the BBB head and in the end I want my Buick to be a Buick not a Chevy headed mutant.
    Jamie
    I'm not trying to beat down your ideas I reply with no disrespect implied.
     
  13. bammax

    bammax Well-Known Member

    If you're going to make a brand new head from scratch then may as well make it an overhead cam setup. Otherwise there's already the T/A heads which will outperform the Fords that you're talking about, and there are the E-brock heads which use the more common Chevy setup for those who are more comfortable with that valvetrain system.
     
  14. Gary Bohannon

    Gary Bohannon Well-Known Member

    Buick heads were very efficiently designed from the factory in 1967. They had angled plugs. good combustion chamber, 17 degree valve angle, good air flow, efficient quench and swirl compaired to other brands.
    The high torque output tells you there is something special going on here.

    In 2002-2003 Car Craft did a big block shootout.
    (440 mopar, 454 chevy, 460 ford, 455 olds, 455 pont, 455 buick)
    All built the same: 10 to 1, 750 Holley, same mild cam specs, etc.
    .....BUICK WON!!! Got 555 hp and pulled a vacuum, begging for more air!!!.....
     
  15. 12lives

    12lives Gravity is matter warping space-time - Einstein

    Go for it! We'll be looking for you in the Engine Masters! :Brow:

    - Bill
     
  16. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    I understand that what you are saying, But wouldn't you love to see a BBB in the NHRA prostock class? I sure would. I understand you don't have to have canted and splayed valve's. But I have'nt seen any tall port heads from anyone yet, I know T/A has the ability to do a set and not ask a tons of money, I seen there heads, there is always away to improve on cylinder heads, Its if some one really wants to, You would not have to have special rockers or change the shaft rocker system. I have realized there is some issue's with valve train geometry and stablization, Why hasn't that been addressed? I see where alot of power is left on the table where I and other people come across and have to figure out. Besides the didn't buick have a engine that used stand alone rockers at one time? I love this engine because it has become the biggest challenge in my life. I want to be able to make a 1000 hp on a engine under 494 cubic inches Naturally aspirated and have room to produce more power.
     
  17. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member


    You got my attention on the bigger head then BBB, I have to disagree, the Ford F.E. head is small and didn't require alot of special made valve train parts nor push rod extreme angles, I want to clarifie one thing though, Why havn't any cylinder head maker for BBB has changed ther combustion chamber, Jack Roush proved to every maker that his combustion chamber proved to more efficent then any ones and added more power and gave a boarder torque range. Every manifacture out there except the BBB has changed to it. Jack is not bais on any brand either. Put this away if the worlds best port and polish school instructor Joe Mondello say's and use's it on his cylinder heads and Darin Morgan too, don't that tell you something! Do you see what I'm saying no!. that combustion chamber is used on small blocks to mega cubic inch engines of any brand of engine, the only exception is the Hemi heads and over head cam heads too.
     
  18. DaWildcat

    DaWildcat Platinum Level Contributor

    I say go for it. Anything stopping you? Nothing wrong with more competition in the lesser-known world of aftermarket Buick parts!

    Devon
     
  19. K0K0

    K0K0 Jamie

    I was talking about the size of a canted valve head the fe's I've seen are inline valve.The combustion chamber on my stg SE heads look nothing like my stg1 iron heads. I thought it was Robert Yates that changened to the "kidney or heart" shaped combustion chambers.
    TA sells TE heads from stg1 to 4 with a raised intake port.I am not saying there isn't better designs out there but as heads go TA's are good.
    Jamie
     
  20. skierkaj

    skierkaj Day 2 Street Screamer

    In regards to cylinder heads and other "off-the-wall" engine designs, you guys need to pick up a copy of this:
     

    Attached Files:

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