deader than dead. it's build your own time. thats what i am doing for the intake. heads, if i could get a pair of v6 aluminums, i would try to cut and weld 2 together. john
So you would buy 4 v6 aluminum heads. Cut them up and weld the them together. Would there need to be a special cam ground to make it work? Has any one tried this? Dan
Let's just say: "Not Dead - but on life support". I had to back away from this endeavor for awhile due to some health and financial reasons. There is some hope of our having these much needed parts and I may be calling on the small block circle in the near future. First things first..........me. :TU:
yea health and financial reasone should come first just as long as your not tossing the idea in the garbage, i can wait another yr, 2 max.... after that i'll just have to do a rebuild w/o al heads..
350 "stuff" " a sure way to fail in business is to go after an increasing share of a decreasing market " . i musta been awake in one of those parts classes . oh sure , seems good for awhile but sooner or later the bottom falls out , usually after a large ill-advised investment in tooling and machinery ( for instance 350 alum heads ) - so guess what guys - not happenin' . K-B dropped out , TA is branching out a little , YEAR ONE and OPG have bases covered . about three years ago i picked up a flyer at bowling green at the bulldog tent that stated " coming soon - 350 buick intake and alum heads " - didn't happen ( by the way , didn't remember seeing bulldog tent this year - were they there ? ) , and this thread has been going just about as long after i posted that info . the engine , although very solid and intesting and equipped with decent flowing stock heads is limited by - years since production , bore size restrictions , crank centerline to cam centerline distance -- and most importantly --- buicks non interest in pushing the performance image since the early 60's - " class " is fine but car shows and swoopy concept cars are not what put z-28's and hemi's and boss mustangs and rat chevelle's up high on the mount at barrett - jackson and at "big" events across the country - it was kicking ass on the street and on the track and gm's and ford's and mopar's committment to aggressive race oriented advertising . buicks response - country club advertising about" tricked out " and over optioned fwd centurys and park ave's . yawn . their chance at redemption was in the mid 80's - they choked ! in current issue of gsca richard has a nice editorial on the shrinking buick community - duh - no kiddin' . he also has a mini editorial complaining about cars at gsca nats that are modified too much (?) and not " classy enough " ? no wonder the buick community is shrinking - go ahead - discourage low buck and performance racing - there's a great idea . you can already build a chevy motor for about a third of a buick mill - that will really suck in those new guys and keep the buick community growing . every one complaining about low pay outs per class - nope - not too many classes - it's not enough people racing and spectating and paying entrance fee's . good example - friday at nats , weather good , racing going on ? - nope - could'nt 'cause the car show was happenin i guess - don't get me wrong , i like the car show and appreciate the time involved prepping the cars but come on guys - do both . the racing needs to go on open to close . fast wild cars , stockers , mildly modified or wildly modified , rods , big buck , low buck , noisey tire smoke over and over . we have to encourage spectators to show up and racers to blow up . run 'em hard . even here at " parts for sale " i can see a difference in just a couple years - alot more " trim " alot less " race " . realistically now i think we'd be lucky to have someone step forward and come up with a good quality , not too expensive , intake adapter so we can at least get some decent air in there . max out the stock heads , rods , crank , cross your fingers , go to church on sunday , run it hard and tell your friends . prediction - 5 - 10 years buick may be gone from gm - its been coming for 40 years , we just haven't noticed . next cut won't be pontiac . and it sure won't be chevy or cadillac . maybe gmc if we're lucky . hey - if someone comes out with a good intake i'm there - but . must be the mixture of pool chlorine and tequila talkin . hot afternoon . del
del, one of the problems we have with a lot of this, nobody talks. everything is a big secret!! when that happens, wants will decline till its not feasible. and the buick market will disappear. so be it for putting all the eggs in one basket. sonny seals has adapted a 350 chevy intake. how come its a big secret??? why can't he or somebody make copies??? bill is doing his thing, but little info is coming from him. not picking on you bill. how many more have so called big secrets out there....... me, i have no secrets on what i am doing. my email and ph # has been around for anybody to ask me any questions. i'm working on adapting a 383 tunnel ram to the 350. at the same time, am using some pvc tubing to mock up a better tunnel ram. also looking at using mopar roller rockers. they will be a hell of lot cheaper if i can make them work. if i could afford a pro or super charger, i would be building something there. sooooooooooo
why cant we just find a contractor, get a price and start collecting cash? When we have the required cash, hire the guy. Pay him when they're done. Ship the heads and be done with it. Money is what this is all about. Lots of people talk. Lets see who can back it up! :3gears:
andy, lots of talk, no money. a-body guys, except chevy, are cheap. fact! (lessons learned from the resto market.) awhile ago i posted a conversation with a ebay vendor from calif about doing intakes for the 350. how many were interested(money in hand)?? turned out to be a dead idea. btw, where is, who is the guy that owns the home made 350 single plane intake??? how come we cant use that one? and..... we have 3 places that make engine parts, t/a, pae, and postons. how come all the 350 guys cant petition one of them to step up and make an intake NOW, not when we are ready to retire. 350 heads are a lot bigger project, but can be done. btw, jim burek does an excellent porting on them :TU: :TU: now, back to everything is a big secret.
Honestly Johnny, secrets are part of the deal now. I used to try and share my thoughts about stuff. Got tired of posts and emails telling me I was stupid, or I didnt know what the _ _ _ _ I was talking about. So, I talk when, to whom, about what I want to, IF I want to. Maybe not the best attitude but......... I am of the thinking that I just need to try and show folks some ideas can work. Instead of being told repeatedly it just wont. PS- Send me an email with a mailing address so I can send you some $$$ for tha little carb. :eek2: I got another idea :Brow:
Shouldn't be too hard to find the right guy. Richard Potter at www.cadillacperformanceparts.com just got some Buick V6 heads poured. They look like some Series II heads. He'll be doing some Caddy 500 heads next.
uummmmm, where do i cut it to make a 350 head......... now, do we all call and ask him for 350 heads and manifold or just some of us ?????
Some of us have already talked to him about that. See Bill's message on that issue. Some more pics of Richard Potters heads. http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/whatsnew1.php?id=32 Greg
Rich Potter will do the heads for us. R&D, building the molds, test pour, and machining for a test set of heads - 25K ballpark. After that, if they are acceptable, they could do a run of maybe 100 sets with the molds. We would need to commit to those 100 sets. $$$$$
Here's my ideas..... now we need a price per set with freight. Multiply that times 100 and add the 25K. Then divide that by 100. A trusted member needs to open a bank account. Interested parties can send their money by mail or electronically. When all the money is there, the members that have paid can vote on the specifics of the heads. When we're in agreement we have the contractor sign a contract saying exactly what he plans on doing for us and how long it will take. There should be penalties for going over schedule. I say he gets money(the 25K) as things get done like when building a house. Show him the statement from the bank account. Heads get shipped in the same order the money went into the account. For example if Bill puts his $$ in first, he gets the first set and if I'm last I'm the last one to get my set. If we don't reach the goal of 100 by a set date, everyone gets their money back. I'm sure others have ideas. Lets get this ball rolling! :3gears: :3gears:
OK my turn, heres what I think. I don't think we need heads yet ! We need a GOOD intake first, not the junk we have to put up with now. I honestly think we ALL could be beating down Edelbrocks door to get them to try a Victor Jr. for our 350" out. If we are gonna commit to buy something, lets start with the easiest and cheapest of the two to get as many involved as we can. By doing this we can SHOW whomever, that we are serious about wanting parts. Simply said, it may take $300-$400 to get a new intake, as opposed to a couple grand for a set of heads. And I doubt there will honestly be that many sets of heads actually bought and payed for when the corns on the fire poppin'. But on the other side of the coin, I feel we could get more involved with a intake quicker. Some of us want heads, YES. I would take a set or two now. But I think the greater percentage of 350"s guys out there could use a intake ALOT worse right now. Phils motor that just left PAE woulda been close to 500 had he had a good intake available to him. That, more than likely, would be more than enough for anyone wanting a great street motor. Remembering that that his motor is a 9.5 to 1 deal. Remember too, we all don't need or want 1000 hp like Bills motor. Alot out there want a driver car. Meaning heads maybe won't fit their budget. Myself, although I have come along kicking and screaming, I have given in to the fact that this is the 21rst century. And with that comes the fact that we need to run a power adder of some kind to compete. Be that nitrous, turbo, or charger'. Saying that, I am thinking I can give up a little flow in my heads, and STILL achieve the hp numbers I want. In MY situation here, I have a full, mild steel, tube frame car with a few strategically added bars in it for safety. But none the less, the feedback I am getting from a bud that does tech in NHRA, the car will ONLY be certified to 8.50 for the rest of its life. Mainly due to the fact that it is steel as opposed to moly. To some thats fine, but if I were to have heads, I would be wanting 1K hp and I would be outrunning my certification on the car. NOT safe there and I would be hunting yet another car. So, it is my opinion as of now, for-go the new aluminum head ideas for a while. Lets get us an intake that works. I highly doubt TA is gonna do another one, Poston isn't gonna either. So lets move on and away from them. Find someone that can work with us, and lets see if we can start working our way up from there. And who knows, maybeeeeeeeeee, someone will have a working single plane that they would provide for copying should the interest be enough, and my machinist did his job over this vacation of mine. JUST my $.02 and nothing more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been wanting to build a Super stock motor but a good intake is needed for this to happen. Alumnium Heads cant be used in super stock or stock. A open plentum intake is by far needed more. Ps what Dave Said. Dan
not only will the " intake first " option be more viable for alot of people money wise it is also something that joe-blow can do himself in an afternoon , no big tricks or specs or extra parts to worry about . that means more good runnin 350's out there , the word spreads , you build a fan base and THEN people want to step up and produce parts for you . and we are not asking for a dozen different designs that cover every 500 rpm segment , just a couple good intakes . maybe a revised TA dual plane to utilize some newer technology wouldn't be too hard to do and a good solid single plane to get you 7000 - 8000 rpm guys where ya need to be . those would be a good solid selection . the problem is that the path of improvement is never ending . once ( if ) we get an intake and heads are we gonna be on here complaining because we don't have forged alloy cranks and rods and ceramic coated wing nuts to keep up with the chevy's - yep , you bet . this is the usa . one step at a time guys , intake first and go from there . max out what you got THEN take your next step . del
