What's the Deal with the buick/Rover head for TA Performance?

Excuse my ignorance, but what engine(s) will these heads fit?

 

The 215, 300, and 340 cid Buick engines as well as the Rover versions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_V8

Hopefully TA follows up the heads with a few intakes for the various applications the heads fit since without good intakes it will be hard to take advantage of the better heads.

One option is the later rover intakes for the fuel injection and the possiblity of running those on the 300 and 340.

 

Sounds like the 215/Rover intakes won't work without some major work. See the pics in this thread: http://v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=172588

BTW, thanks Jim for posting those. It really shows the challenges of using the Rover intake.

Sean, you better get Mark working on a couple sheetmetal 300 and 340 prototypes! I can't imagine T/A developing a 340 intake. Not enough engines out there in a 2 year run.

Has anybody ever flow benched a factory 340 intake? They may flow better than we think. Hey, the cast iron 455 intakes flow pretty darn good for a station wagon engine.

Brian

 

The Metal Magician will build anything we want!

 

The 300-340 port arrangement might be a little more difficult to build a good performing sheet metal intake, but if anyone can do it, Mark can!:beers2:

 

The closest thing I found based on bore centers was the early Chrysler Hemi @ 4.1875" (340 is 4.240") the DeSoto Hemi @ 4.312" and the Toyota @ 4.19".

Unfortunately the siamesed center runners mean there won't work because they have separate runners. Just our luck to have a unique bore center and port layout. A mild steel tubular intake is looking better and better. Maybe something in a 4x2 layout with small Edelbrock 4 barrels. At least the ports would line up nice and the CFM would be close. Might make it so it would accept a bolt on plenum and still be reasonably short.

Jim

 

Sounds great Mike! I'll be checking in from time to time. I found the stats on the wildcat heads. Here is a section on there web page.

"Former CamAm and Interserie racer Ian Richardson, has designed and developed a neat new head casting for the Rover engine that bolts straight on and uses the same pushrod arrangement but in stage 1 form will flow 130 cubic feet per minute of gas. The best Rover manages about 105. The stage 2 Wildcat has flowed over 150cfm, and helps a 51tr Rover to just under 450bhp."

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Stage 2 Cylinder Head (Full Race)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Made from aluminium alloy LM25 TF (heat treated)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Intake valve 1.950" (Stainless Steel) exhaust 1.600" (Stainless Steel)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]T&D nascar type roller rockets in pairs on aluminium stand[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Offset intake and exhausts[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bronze Guides[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tungsten Alloy Seats[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Valve springs chrome silicone dual[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Chrome moly retainers and locks (titanium optionals)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ported/polished/chambers, balanced and port matched[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Intake port sizes 1.25" x 2.100" exhaust port sizes 1.25" x 1.5"[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Outflows race prepared Rover head by approx 55c.f.m. @ 10" (0550/0580 valve lift)"[/FONT]​

How do the TA Heads compare?​

 

fully ported v6 heads are showing ~275cfm on the intake at .650" lift. i would expect much the same out of the v8 stuff.

http://www.taperformance.com/products.asp?cat=141

 

That's not very impressive, when compared to ported iron heads.

 

Well considering the ported 350 heads are over 280 intake and close to 200 exhaust I sure hope they flow better than 275!o No:

 

o No:

i had thought i had been hearing quotes well over 300cfm but 275 is all TA is showing in their catalog.

 

We've heard of flow numbers over 300 too, its possible but it takes a lot of work to do so. We've never ported heads to those numbers in the shop. We hit 275 with a little bit of work but beyond that is where it gets interesting (and most importantly) time consuming. (V6 aluminum heads)

 

What are your 350 ported iron heads flowing?

 

We've gotten mine to 260 and there isnt much left to port. There's a few spots we're gonna play with but I dont think they're going to flow much more.

 

I've been talking to a few guys about 340 intakes. As it turns out, the Willpower is available in an intake to fit the P76 Austrailian Rover, which is a tall deck 4.4 liter version of the 215. The deck is about 1" taller. The 340 deck is right at 1-3/16" taller. Harcourt makes spacers in any desired thickness so the issue is just price and flow. The Willpower flows a little less than the old Huffaker single plane but has better distribution. With the new heads coming out, Willpower may be interested in enlarging the runner sizes. If they do it would be a simple matter to cast the runner flanges a bit thicker so they could be milled for either the P76 or the 340, I don't think anybody is going to complain about flanges that are 3/16 or 1/4" thicker than usual. Which brings us to price. Last info I had indicated that the cost of the Willpower intakes was right close to $600 and shipping added another $200. That's kinda steep, but my figures may be high. But, at least it's an option, especially for a built up 340. Considering that the easiest way to increase displacement in a 215/Rover engine is to switch to the 340 block, once head flow is available, the next obvious step is to increase displacement. Interest in 340s among Buick enthusiasts will enjoy a breif resurgence while the 350 head is being developed, and will remain popular for Rover based bvehicles beyond that. The only problem is that they aren't all that common anymore so it's a limited market.

Maybe TA isn't interested in a piece of that pie. Can't say I can blame them, there must be more profitable places to put your money and I'm sure they have the production numbers. But at least there is one usable single plane out there. It might not be ideal, it might cost too much, but at least it is available.

Jim

 

I've been looking at my Kirk P76 jet boat manifold which is about the same as the Willpower and the runners are not big. I think the runners on the new T/A head will be bigger than the outside of the casting on those manifolds, or close to it if the Wildcat head is anything to go by.

275cfm is plenty to keep a +0.030 340 busy to 7800rpm.

 

The closest thing I found based on bore centers ... Unfortunately the siamesed center runners

due to the oddball 1st/2nd gen Buick valve arrangement, shouldn't you be ignoring bore centers?

just go with the intake runner spacing between #1 and #3 / #5 and #7 and look at sectioning out the material in the middle?

 

That might work if you have a tig machine. I was hoping to find something a little closer though. I have no idea how you might be able to remove the space between 3/5 on an equally spaced runner intake and still keep the plenum. Seems it'd have to be a monster of a motor too since there's probably 2-3" to remove. After that there's the width. Could happen but it's a lot to ask.

Jim

 

You guys want to see what the Aussies can do with buick/rover engines you'll be amazed. 550 h.p. out of 5L v8. Let's beat them TA Performance!

triumphroverspares .com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=16&parent3id=19

I put a space before the ".com" so don't cut and paste without checking it. I can't post links yet? stupid.

 

Here you go:

http://triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=16&parent3id=19