Chris Blair has made one of the best points; several times, actually. The original topic of this thread was whether or not there should be a seat belt law. I don't think anyone here is saying that seat belts are bad. Not even me. I think we all agree that in most cases, they do save lives, and are therefore a good idea. So, that point is settled as I see it. Back to the original question: Should the Federal Government force us wear them? The answer has to be an emphatic NO. It is not the Feds' job to protect us from ourselves. Again, it's Personal Responsibility. Whether out of arrogance, ignorance, or indifference, no one has the right (in my opinion) to force me to do something that may/will save my life. Not my parents, not my children, not my spouse, and certainly not the government. It's MY life. I will decide for myself. Certainly, as I wrote before, there should be laws protecting others from any effect this decision may have on others; namely, NO INSURANCE COVERAGE paid for by taxpayers if I become an invalid due to my choice not to wear a seat belt. That's entirely fair, and I support it. However, supporting the law because you think it's 'good for me', is a bit presumptuous. Now, let's debate cellphone use while driving...... :laugh:
Whether or not a person should have a constitutional right to decide if they shold wear a seat belt is not the primary reason for seat belt laws. The primary reason is to provide for public safety. That's every member of the general public, not just you or others who don't like such laws. The fact that fines are issued for failure to wear seat belts are secondary in nature. It is not a cash grab as some people think, rather it is a means to an end. If there is a possibility that failure to comply with a law could result in a fine, many people will obey that law. Some won't, and others will refuse on the grounds of "constitutional rights" or some other charter of freedoms. Beatlebuicks statement that emergency responders shouldn't be required to remove the carcass of someone who did not wear a safety belt is an extension of your arguement to not be required to wear seat belts. You don't wear them, they don't have to save your sorry a$$. Why should your rights supercede anyone else who may need to deal with the aftermath created by your decision. They would be merely exercising their right to decide not to respond when you need them to save you. Instead, they would call your next of kin, and/or friends so they can save you. Their response becomes secondary to your right to choose to suffer the consequences of your actions. Just because it's their job to save injured victims is not the question here. You decided that you didn't need to use the restraint system, they decide to refuse to save you, it becomes their right. Why should they have to deal with the mess created when an unrestrained human body is propelled into a solid object at a high rate of speed????? Originally posted by beatlebuick You should have a right to wear or not wear a seat belt. A Paramedic, First Aid Responder, Fire Rescue or Police Officer should also have the right to NOT pull you out of the windshield or lift the vehicle off you when you get ejected and the vehicle rolls over onto you. I think the rescue team has the right to have your loved ones pull you from the accident.
Rantanator 5000: All systems go Riight and they shouldn't have to save someones life if they had a heart attack in McDonalds after eating a big mac when they were advised not to by their doctor? Or if someone is cut deeply on a piece of machinery that they weren't operating properly? Yeah that would teach 'em for next time, let 'em bleed to death. What I am trying to say is that yes it is irresponsible and dangerous, but lets face it, so are many, many, many things people have done since the begining of man. I'm sure EVERYONE on this board has done something irrational or stupid over the years that they "had done a million times before" without getting injured by it. Why am I sure? Because everyone here is human and therefore has plenty of imperfections. Sure ya wear a seatbelt but do you: Smoke? Drive over the speed limit? Take corners over the suggested speed to take them (if you ever have then why are you gonna take advise from the government about wearing seat belts if you don't listen to them about a posted speed?)? Drink? Change oil without gloves on (it says on the side oil container it can cause cancer, and we'll be paying for you when you get old because you didn't heed their warning)? Go out in the sun too long? Etc,etc,etc.....this list could get long, but I think you get the idea. Patrick P.S. I wear a seatbelt anytime I go out whether in my car or anyone elses and all my passengers also wear seatbelts, and not because the gubmn'ts forcing me to its by my own accord so lunatics can't add me to their statistics when they go to make more fascist legislation under the guise of "Public Safety".
The act of driving itself puts one at risk. You know someone might fall asleep and hit you, yet you choose to drive anyway. Should emergency crews have the right to not use the jaws of life to remove your seat-belted body from a car when you were hit by a driver who fell asleep?
Or what if someone drives during hazardous conditions (eg. terrible snow storm, large hail, heavy winds, icy conditions) when they should know better. After all they should have known better and are forcing emergency crews to go out in dangerous conditions. Patrick
Several posts are correct on this thread about why I started it almost a year back. The question for discussion was: Should the gov. make us wear a belt by law? Not if wearing them is safe. Like I stated in my first post, of course your safer wearing a belt than not wearing one (in Almost every situation). Wearing a belt should be a choice you make for your health. Not for your wallet.
Hi Guys, I haven't spoke up till now.... Back on May 4, 2000 MY Father drowned because of a stinking seatbelt in his 2000 Ford F350 Van when it rolled and flipped into a drainage ditch in NY! 37 years before that he was involved in a VERY bad wreck in his (then new) 1963 Ford Falcon Futura convertible which barrel-rolled at least 6 times with two end-over-ends and only sustained a cut above his right eye. He WAS NOT wearing a seatbelt....as they were ONLY an extra-cost option on the order form. Not wearing his seatbelt allowed him to instinctively dive into the passenger side floor board, grab and hold on for dear life to the bottom of the dash! My Father NEVER wore a seatbelt BEFORE this RIGHT INFRINGING LAW CAME NEAR COMING INTO EXISTANCE and his work insurance DEMANDEDLY stipulated it. A little story about me... I wrapped my first car around a telephone pole at somewhere near 90mph (estimated by scene investigator) when I hit a very small patch of "black ice" back in Feb 1988. That was my first car...my pristine, 41,000 original miles 1972 GS 455 hardtop. I avoided two oncoming cars and the second was just barely but then there was the telephone pole. You know how you see regular poles and then there are the BIG ones?? Well the one I "kissed" was you guessed it....one of the BIG ones. Easily three feet or more in diameter. Now I was being a typical stupid show-off 21 year old....who just happend to own a GS455 and drove it like one too. If there was a set of tires to be burned everyone knew I was the man for the job.:TU: I was THE guy whom people would pay just to take them for a ride. I would, in the middle of traffic, on the busiest cruise strip in town on a Friday or Saturday night....literally do smokey doughnuts after pulling out of Mc D's or whatever I would be dared to do...I was the guy for the job! And not JUST a single 360...many, many revolutions if you will. Stupid I know...but it's great to see/hear about a guy after my own heart (and the lust for smoldering tires!:grin: ) like Johnno. I'm envious as I haven't done a burnout with one of my Buick's since Aug '99! Anyway...back to the seatbelts...As I said, I wrecked that car one fateful winter night. Clear, no snow but some frost and some "black ice" as I said. I was coaxed into doing a burnout after leaving a local high school basketball game. People would line up and cheer me on as I would smoke 'em to high heaven. That night I was told by a few buddies that this girl (whom I though was IT) was there and was hoping to see me do some burnouts. So...I went to the end of the block as the game was letting out and hammered it...TOO DARN HARD I guess as the throttle popped off of the carb and "she" went WIDE-OPEN. I didn't know it till after I had a strong burn going and the car was swaying back side-to-side fishtailing that that had happened till I let off and she just kept accelerating. That's when I hit the ice and the car went HARD sideways and broke them loose again after continuing to gain speed. I missed two cars but slightly over-corrected and that put me literally inches from the pole.....HEAD-ON! I was wearing NO belt but kissed the windshield...my face-print including my eyebrows were permanently inbeded in it. It literally plucked both eyebrows out of my face and left over a full cup of shards of glass imbedded in my face.:shock: My face is scared to this day from it, had a '73 Centurion convertible's radiator blow-up in my face too a few years back but that's another story. There was blood all over the windshield and the front of my jacket but I did not even know I hit the windshield. I said "#$#!" hit my windshield??" The impact "knocked" the engine back to an idle but did not kill it. The ENTIRE front end was wrapped around this pole. It was a direct hit to the passenger side frame rail that buckled it back in seven different place. The hood was folded up in the middle as if it were your hand and you were grabbing a cheeseburger.....BUT still setting there idling pretty as can be! The rearend ofthe car was out in traffic so I backed it off of the pole and shut it off. I got out and proceeded to kick and punch the car like no ones tomorrow...ALL in front of at least 500 people! Talk about going from HERO to ZERO.ou: I walked away from that one.....EXTREMELY P.O.'d at myself for wrecking that BEAUTIFUL piece of machinery. From that day on I then walked back and forth 5 miles EACH way every day to work till Oct 12, 1988 to save the money ($4000) to buy my '70 GS455 4-speed convertible that is in my avatar. My sister flipped her 1996 Pontiac Grand Prix a couple of years back WITHOUT a seatbelt and walked away unmarked. She IS a County Corrections Corporal for our county jail and knows every cop in this area whether City, County or State. She has told them ALL point blank that SHE WILL NOT WEAR ONE because of our dad! They have told her that the only thing they look for is if it's over your shoulder or not when asked how they know if you are wearing one or not. I LOVE driving my 1965 289 4V Mustang for the VERY reason it is seatbelt EXEMPT! Most people do not know this but the seatbelt law ONLY AFFECTS vehicles built AFTER 1968. As seatbelts were an addition cost option and MANY did not leave the factory equipted therewith. Therefore exemplifying them from any enforcement of that law upon them!:Smarty: As a side note...I was out for a walk not too long ago and went to that spot (it's only a couple of blocks from my Mother's house). The "scar" of the indention of my car is still visible in the pole. I went kind of digging around in the dirt there and found a very tiny piece of my plastic '72 GS grille. What a momento to find after more than 18 years.: Foolish to some....FREEDOM to others whom are "free" and over 18! I guarantee cigarettes will kill more people than seatbelts WILL EVER save! But will a law be passed for that one??? :af: MAN and His ways is SO arrogant....thinking that science and the passing of laws will someday, somehow "outlaw" death.ou: Well....by now I'm sure you can tell how I feel about this subject! Thanks for allowing me to vent.
Government intrussion I do not think government should have to tell us what we can and can't do in our car or motorcycle. Whatever happened to common sence? I was in a roll over accident in a 72 Chevy 4x4. If I would have had my seatbelt on I would have been injured or killed. When we landed at least I was on the roof and not torn apart from a seat belt. I had a sprained thumb from holding on to my home work. I was 8 yrs old. Government is to serve the people, not the people serve the Government. Mike
pro choice add another vote for "it should be your choice". anyone know how to get the law repealed or if that is even a remote possibility? Hey, maybe all laws could be voted on online by all the people, for all the people, instead of some narrow minded, opionated self rightous, lobbiest friendly, repersentative that we voted into office without really knowing a thing about how he really thinks. It would nice if the power was truely in the peoples hands.
I always wear a seat belt to protect myself and the people in the vechicle. If you are belted in you are certainly in a much better situation to control your auto in an emergency. Situations leading up to a accident in traffic will always be a possibility every minute. Mistakes on occasion will be made. If all drivers, passengers are belted in and a accident occurs the odds are much better for you, your passengers, the vechicles on the road way you are driving on. Everyone not just you is in a safer situation. I know this thread is about the law making us wear a seat belt and I don't object simply because there are so many of us that otherwise would not wear one. I personally have been in a wild accident (as I'm sure many of you have been) and there is no way I could have stayed behind the wheel not to mention controlling the auto without the belt. Bob Swarthout
seat belt law I also agree the choice should be the drivers, but I also believe that if you do not wear a belt and go thru the windshield or you get partially thrown from the vehicle the car lands on your body and you die, the insurance company has the option to pay, or not pay. What about the paramedics that have to pick up the body pieces along the roadway ? Don't say " it's their job ". I'll be the first one to fight to protect someones rights, but when I end up paying for it, I get the right to speak up.
Quote: Originally Posted by beatlebuick You should have a right to wear or not wear a seat belt. A Paramedic, First Aid Responder, Fire Rescue or Police Officer should also have the right to NOT pull you out of the windshield or lift the vehicle off you when you get ejected and the vehicle rolls over onto you. I think the rescue team has the right to have your loved ones pull you from the accident. The idiot who did not wear his seat belt is "personally responsible" for the consequences. He's obviously got the situation well in hand and doesn't need any help. If he dies, it's because of his own choices and nobody else should be forced to help him out.
Hey, if Bquick had been wearing a lap belt, his car would never have rolled onto his head. uzzled: True story -- buckle up. -- Steve
Not wearing a seatbelt doesn't make someone an idiot. Please don't say stupid things... I know someone who swears got his life saved by not wearing a seatbelt. I personnally had a serious accident and wasn't injured even if I didn't wear my seatbelt. And no I wasn't ejected from the car... If someone gets injured in a ski accident, would you say don't save him because he had the choice of staying home instead of doing a dangerous activity? Maybe his insurance shouldn't pay if he's not able to work after the accident... If someone is so concerned about safety, he shouldn't drive an old car because none are supposed to be as safe as newer ones... But of course, there are other things than safety in life, like pleasure which should be considered. Otherwise, consider living in a bunker and avoid being exposed to the dangers of the road, the sun, the terrorists, viruses, the dangerous unbelted old car drivers or the armed children that are ready to shoot on everyone...
Had to add my 2 cents . I am a firefighter and an emt that has pulled many dead bodies from cars ! I have seen the terrible effects of a ejection and I feel that seat belts are a good idea . They provide safety in an accident . They do not save everyone . I have seen every possible kind of crash . I have aslo pulled many dead people from their cars after cutting their seat belts to remove them . Also consider that many of the states that require seat belts do not require helmets for operating a motorcycle ! How far are we going to go with this . I guess the next step is for everyone in a car must have a helmet on . Helmets would save more lives in cars than they do on motorcycles. I guess then we can make all cars with 1 cyl engines and the bodies from foam rubber . Please stay out of my personal life and I will do the same . Oh by the way you know that the seatbelt law will not apply to police officers ! They claim to need to exit their vehicles fast and the seat belt will slow them down . Give me a break let the government do its job of defense, making useful laws to protect and further our way of life .
