Powerjection III Install and Review

DR EFI asked:
Are you getting the prime shot out of the injectors?

Yes prime shot is good.:TU:

 

What is Inj Mode 2?

How many "Inj Modes" are there and what do the numbers mean?

 

I can make my car do this. May be it's just my set up but if I have my "From To" setting set to 5000 PW and 4 sec and my "After Start Emrichment set to 4 sec and I don't use a enough "C-temp Enrichment" it will stall as soon as the "From To" timer runs out. I think it is when the PW goes from the high of 5000 to the way lower setting in the "C-temp Enrichment" that makes it drop the PW to 1100 and stall the car. I found if I keep the "From To" on for 8 sec at 4000 with the "After Start Enrichment" a little higher and longer then step down a little further on my "C-temp Enrichment" it will start and stay running every time. So the drop in PW is a little more gradual. Once the engine warmed up enough it didn't seem to have this issue. I turn my CL on at 120 and my idle target AFR is set at 14.4. Here are the settings I am using now.

 

SW1.1 upgraded to 2.1 Starts run and dies within 5 secs. Inj PW drops to 1100 in Inj Mode 2. My V1.1 logs had a much higher PW and stayed running. Going back to V1.1 required firmware. No firmware on CD.

Cal File
http://www.filefactory.com/file/cce5c12/n/Boosted_10PS,_80Inj__6A_tach_06.19.11.rsc

Log File
http://www.filefactory.com/file/cce5c2f/n/StageIII_Log_File59.S3L

 

Here my old V1.1 log file which shows a PW a ~3000 in Inj Mode 2 @ idle.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/cf930c8/n/StageIII_V1.1_Log_File22.S3L

 

It does it even at 190* but I think you are on to something. Seems I have a similar problem to Sprint1320.

 

With my carb, my engine needed a step up on the idle circuit. I had to increase the idle feed restrictors several steps. With so much overlap she liked to idle rich. So the question is: Is there a way to increase the Pw at idle with out going into manual step mode? I think you're right, when it kicks off the IntPw setting and crashes down to 1100, it can't react to adjust for A/F before the engine dies.

 

Sprint1320,

I could be completely wrong on this but looking at the IAC position on your data log it appears that your PJ unit is not connected to 12V that is hot during cranking. It looks like you turn the key to run, IAC is at 70, then it runs to 190 while you're cranking and then starts closing when/after the RPM's come up.

When you shut the car off, it runs the IAC all the way open (190) and then back to your preset cranking position. This is the only time you'd see the IAC at 190 unless you have your RPM follower maximum position set to 190 and looking in your cal file you do not, it's at 70 max. Based on that, it appears the unit is turning off or in shutdown mode when you turn your key to "start" or "crank".

FYI, I have my max set around 150 or so.

 

Mine is doing the exact same thing. Right after starting, the IAC is at 190 on the real time viewer. Takes a few seconds to drop back down. Even if I set cranking position at 50 and after start to 70max, it shows 190 and then slowly moves back down.

If the IAC is open that much after starting it would explain why the extra fuel is needed to stay running. However even with the IAC taped shut, the car will start and then die right after the IntPw timer runs out. With the timer at zero, the car will not start.

 

It may be doing some weird crap since it's not seeing it start, only turning on and immediately seeing RPM's over 400 which is when it goes from crank to after start to run mode. I don't know how it acts in that situation.

 

Steiner, you may have just found something... I checked voltage to my keyed wire and found I had 13v+ until I cranked the starter. Then it dropped to below 2v. hard to tell as the car starts right up. If the IAC is reseting to 190 as the car starts it would explain why it dies with out the extra fuel from the IntPw enrichment. Basically it runs on the prime shot only as the unit restarts after cranking. Then with the IntPw at 5000 the IAC stays open to keep the idle up. When the IntPw ends, the PJIII can't react quick enough to save the stall.

I will look for a better power source and start from scratch. Cross your fingers!

 

Why not just run a relay straight to the PJ3. I had been thinking about doing this myself as it never hurts to have a straight shot from the battery to something with a computer.

 

I'm going to run it to the battery with the red wire just for a few minutes to see if it is the issue. If so then yes, a relay will be used. I have a 3 way switch to install anyway as the key wire I was using also triggers the e-fan and electric water pump relays. I want to wait to turn on the fan and water pump until after the engine starts. So I'll run from the battery to the switch and from the switch to the three different relays.

 

I was playing with mine today and may of learned something. I fired it up from a cold start and it began to surge up and down. I tried playing with a lot of things but nothing was seeming to take care of it. I then began to turn the fuel up down low as I had started to lower the 400-1000 fuel so the ADL wouldn't be pulling 30% fuel up. As I did the car began to quit surging. The ADL began to start pulling more fuel out but the surging was gone. I don't know if if this was coincidence or if it really fixed the problem. I also turned down the idle a tad and the car is running good again.

 

You guys may be on to something with the voltage. Look at my battery and key. they stay on and it goes into inj mode 8 after inj mode 10. 8 is idle. 10 is the "FRom To" PW. Sprint yours goes down to 9 volts when cranking and the key turns off when cranking then back on. It then goes from inj mode 10 to 2 which is auto. Is your ignition wire live when cranking or is you voltage just dropping to much.

1=cranking
2=Auto
3=Manual
4=Decell
5=Standby
6=Clear Flood
7=Fixed PW
8=Idle Cell
10=From To mode

Stroker
Why the 21 degrees initial. May make it a little harder to turn over.

 

The 21* initial is due to the large cam. Of course that was with a carb, perhaps with Fuel Injection it will take less initial timing? My injector mode also switches to 2 after 10. Even though the idle cell is highlighted green it never shows injector mode 8 on the live viewer.. hmmm....

 

Good observation and thanks for the Inj Mode Codes!<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shape style="WIDTH: 18.75pt; HEIGHT: 14.25pt" id=_x0000_i1025 type="#_x0000_t75" alt="0"><v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/HP_Owner/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" o:href="http://www.v8buick.com/images/smilies/znaika.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>
What sorta voltage drop do others see in their logs during initial cold starts? Less than 2 volts?

I could try a direct connection to the batt or separate 12V source later this week to isolate this potential root cause. To be honest I classified this as a non-issue since it started and held idle on V1.1 SW. See above V1.1 log...voltage dropped from ~11.5- to ~9.5 volts on starter.

It fires right away so I barley hit the mini starter. Red top batt is 1 year old and I have low compression for boost. The starter could still be drawing too much current for this HW/SW configuration to function properly. So it's worth investigating.
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After reavieng the codes I reviewed my logs again. I noticed in my V1.1 log posted above that I hit Inj Modes 3 in 4 (post start). [ignore the first half of the V1.1 log.] In my V2.1 log I am only seeing modes 1 and 2 (post start). Unless I am missing something the IAC function between my V1.1 and V2.1 logs appear to be same or similar for on, start, initial run before it dies in ~ 5 secs.<O></O>
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If I rule out voltage I'm back to the low 1100 PW after initial start that I cant seem to change. I wil request V1.1 firware for my V1.1 CD from PP for back-up.<O></O>
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Note: So far all V2.1 changes have been in the auto mode with closed loop and ADL on. These were my next options to play with. <O></O>
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It doesn't seem to be a voltage level issue. Take a look at your logs and the key signal goes from 1 to 0 the entire time you are cranking (not cycling up and down with voltage) on BOTH firmware versions. My voltage levels dip down to 9.5 but mine goes straight from mode 10 to mode 8 after starting and my key stays on 1. The control voltage for the PJ is connected to the same circuit that supplies the coil. Back when I first installed the unit, it came with the MAP boundary for idle cell set to something other than 100 so it bounced in and out of the idle cell at idle but it didn't shut off.

I don't know if the 1100 minimum pulsewidth stuff existed in both firmware versions. Cody said they added the two additional fuel timers to the after start stuff to keep it from setting the pw to 1100 right after starting during spikes of something....I thought he said MAP level but I don't see any spikes in your logs....but I don't know if it was to correct something in the first version or due to a problem they had in the second version. I don't even think I have any version 1 logs.

 

That is what mine was doing when I changed my map at the end of last week. Some how my map boundary for the idle cell was like 30 something. So the car would continually go in and out of the idle cell. After reading that other thread I posted a link to it :idea2: that I needed to check all the boundaries that were necessary to fall into the idle cell.


As for Sprint, did you start with a new file when you went to v2.1? I originally had v2.0 firmware and calibration file on my PJ3. I then upgraded the firmware and software on but reused my v2.0 calibration file. This caused all sorts of issues with the IAC and some other issues. If you haven't, I'd try starting with the base v2.1 calibration file and then changing the stuff you need to.