These graphs are pretty interesting. It shows that once you start spending some real cash, engines of similar displacement start to even out in performance regardless if they are Buick or LSX. Above is the Level 2A 455. Below is the LSX454 While these are two different dyno results from two different facilities and test conditions, it is still interesting to compare. The performance levels are very similar. Although, as you might expect, the Buick curve comes in earlier and stays flatter but the LSX has more power under the curve and stays above 500 ft. lbs of torque for about 800 RPM longer than the 455. However, this LSX 454 is no junk yard motor. The long block has a price tag of $9,599.00 from Jegs while Jim's website list his Level 2A 455 at $11,250.00. I would offer that this is not the budget territory of the average guy considering an LSX swap. What most of the budget minded people talking about LSX swaps are going to get is more like this graph of an LS1 cam only dyno test: This is what an LSX can offer. Some extraordinary performance and reliability for very little money. These motors will make this horsepower and even more for about 2 grand. That is what this conversation is really about for a lot of guys. Letting really budget minded guys go fast and have fun on the cheap.
My personal preference is to see cars that have power plants that are period correct. They present a genuine experience that elevates them to a level that I can respect the most. I especially like to see cars that were hot-rodded with vintage aftermarket goodies - just like they were in their day. I REALLY like some of the rat rods that people are putting together now days. Not the extreme ones, but the kind that you would swear came right from the pre-war era. What I really don't care for are those 30/40/50's cars that are over-done with full leather interiors, digital dashes, air suspensions, billet poop, and crate small blocks. They lack any character to me. And, they probably ride like an '83 Eldorado (which isn't so bad, but it’s not fit for a "hot rod"). I've owned an LT1, LQ9, and 5.4 modular. I've really liked them, but would never put one in a mid-20th century vehicle. They belong in modern cars. In 15-20 years, all the hot rods with LS series motors being installed now are going to look just as dated and wrong as the hot rods done in the 80's that still have TPI 350s and 700R-4s in them (I’m talking ’57 Chevs, ’32 Fords, even early 60’s Vettes!) Again, that's just my opinion. I’d like to totally restore my ’03 F-150 (same body style as a Lightning, but it’s not). I think people will be restoring trucks like it down the road. And they will be even FASTER! I put a 455 in my Skylark because it offers the experience that only a big block Buick can. It's cut from the same cloth. If I couldn't afford to do a 455, then I would have built the 350 or found a different car. It’s a hobby car to me, not a daily driver, so the experience needs to be “1972." EDIT: I will make one exception for safety. I don't mind seeing better brakes or tires on older cars, as long as they aren't "blingy."
We had good mpg/power results with this one. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=182910 If this build had headers on it, we might have seen mpg up around 22.. on the highway. Had I bumped the compression from 9.0 to 10.0, it would have increased the efficiency of the engine, and the mileage, but we were working with off the shelf stuff, and a 400 would require custom pistons to achieve that compression, or decking the block, which I couldn't do, as it was a numbers matching deal. OD trans with lockup conveter is the key, and it is exactly the reason why the newer stuff gets the mileage it does. To go further yet, a port efi system with a dedicated FI intake manifold would be the next step. JW
Steven, I agree that if you can limit yourself to the near stock LS configurations, it is the most cost effective HP around. Just figure in the cost of a new trans, along with the proper gearing in the rear. A guy like you who is building from scratch is quite different than someone who has a working car, and would have to add those costs to the swap. JW
You know, if you talk about the engine being right to the car, I think the 400-430-455 has its place. It belongs in cars from 1967-1976. The 455 was never intended for my 65. So in reality, I should have a nailhead. Now how many guys do a 455 nailhead swap. ALOT!!!! Like Jim said hot rodding is about personalization. For me and in my journey, I think the LS is for me. Maybe someday I will go back to the BBB. As far as what happened to my motor, looks like lifter valley problem and 1 spun main. #5 cylinder was weak as well. I really don't know what happened. All I know is after I made a couple hard passes down the street, It had 0 oil pressure at idle and when hitting the throttle up to 1500 the pressure was over 100 lbs. At idle had alot of valvetrain noise and a knock that was getting louder until I shut it off as soon as I could. Talking to many people, I am going to take my turbo 350 apart and put it in a chevy case. It will bolt up. I have a coan 3500 10" converter and 3:73 in rearend. They say with a Lq9 block, ls6 heads that flow 315 out of the box, weisco forged piston, intake and carb, running 11:1 compression, this thing will never bog, and will be EXPLOSIVE from idle to 6500. Looking to make around 550hp. It will be about 300 pounds off the nose of the car. Thank you all for you comments.
Absolutely Jim. If I had a car that already had a 455, I would have never even considered the LSX. In fact, if I still had the extensive parts cache that I sold with my 64 Special in 2004, my Skylark would already have a stout 455 in it as we speak. But, with my 65, I was starting from scratch this time. I needed a trans, rear, motor, intake, headers, carb, motor mounts, accessories - everything. I was looking at 10 grand + to get something I would be satisfied with in a 455.
I don't think this is true. I already have a 455 in my car and if I take my 1975 heads off and replace them with TA aluminum head and by the time I get a new block, have it machined, I will have way over $5000.00 in it. And it will probally make les power than the LS motor.
I don't know about his number. How much do you think a BBB weighs? And, what weight have you heard for the iron block LQ9? I was think more like a 100lb to 150lb difference. But, I don't know the actual numbers.
Yeah, I think 300 pounds may be a bit on the high side. I don't know the actual numbers either so I can't say for sure. I know on my car with the LS2 it was definately lighter and we were able to move the motor back quite a bit which also helps weight transfer. I think the Buick 455 is around 616. (Deduct 60 Pounds for Alum Heads and roughly 25/30 Pounds for Alum Intake) Not sure on the LS Motors (Iron Block or Aluminum) Anyone know off hand?
Oh, I thought the BBB weighed 750lbs with iron heads. I think an LQ9 engine weighs around 500lbs I'm not for sure though
Here's a list I found posted on this board: Maker Size Weight Chevy 454 775 Caddy 500 750 MOPAR 426 725 MOPAR 440 670 Ford 429 665 Ford 390 660 Pontiac 455 650 Pontiac 400 650 Ford 351C 647 Ford 351W 647 MOPAR 383 638 Olds 455 635 Buick 455 616 Buick 430 616 Olds 400E 610 Olds 400L 610 Buick 400 600 Olds 350 560 Chevy 350 525 .
The number I hear quoted is that the iron block is 80lbs more. So that would put it in at 510 lbs. vs the 616 lbs. that Todd quoted for the 455. So, if all that guesswork is correct, about 100 lbs. After a little more reading, I am seeing numbers from 60lbs. to 100lbs. I am not sure if anyone has truly weighed one. I will know real world numbers for my project very soon. I just weighed my car at 3370 lbs. with the 300" motor and ST300 transmission. I am replacing it with the LQ9 and a TH200-4R. I will weigh it on the same scale when I am done and report in.
100 lbs or so sounds reasonable. Bryan.. do you need a new block? Have you taken it apart yet? Looks like your set on the LS swap, that's fine, but you should sit down an pencil up all the costs, for both, and then like was said.. double them, to get a realistic number, espcially with the swap, which always leads to unknowns. I wouldn't bet the farm on a 364ci motor, with a 315 cfm head outpowering one with heads just as good, but 100ci bigger. Especially with the outstanding low to mid range rpm cylinder filling the Buick has. That's what makes the low speed torque. JW
Ok, please realize I'm way out of my element here, but with all this LS talk, couldn't you build a turbo 3.8 and spank everybody?
LOL! Definitely. But, they cost more than the 455s. What about doing a Chevelle with an LQ9 AND the AWD to boot? That would be something to brag about as long as it had the proper stance with all the extra hardware underneath. I'm sure someone has probably tried it by now . . . o No:
how bout we take all this LS talk to a LS/chevy web sight,seriously,I don't know about anyone else but I drive a buick to have something different,and everytime I beat up on brand xers in a 3700# 40 year old ,10.00 n/a buick you can't wipe the grin off my face.so go ahead and live in a cookie cutter house and drive a cookie cutter car and maybe will meet at a dragstrip where I'll race your LS powered buick,waving that buick flag all the way!
The common bond here is we all have Buick Sheetmetal. Some (Most) have Buick Powerplants. BUT, some have GM Power plants, Chevy Rear Ends (How many of you are running 12 Bolts?), GM Trannys, (Anyone running a 4 Speed Overdrive Trans?) Aftermarket Parts, Aftermarket Radios, Seats, Wheels, Brakes........and the list goes on and on and on...... How many aftermarket parts did it take to make your BUICK run 10's? Some of us switch Cams, heads, intakes etc... Some of us switch Motors, trannys, rear ends etc.....But we still like and enjoy our Buicks! Again, I wish in no way to take sides - I own both and have an open mind to the hobby we all call Hot Rodding And judging by the amount of hits on this post the LS motors have sparked quite a bit of interest. o No: .
ya these motors are pretty out dated. so anyone running a factory big block chevy should throw it out and get an ls motor it'd make more power and it would get better gas mileage. Cody
As long as there are Buick motors to use I will always be Buick engine faithful. If I wanted a Chevy motor I would own a Chevy vehicle. When I'm at a carshow and I see a Chevy powered Buick, I just keep walking. My interest is gone. 600 hp with 20 mpg? Good luck. Time to get a hybrid if your concerned about mpg. My humble opinion. John
