In our very small city of Venice, Florida where I work, The city proper has a city Council. In the last few years that a non “long time resident” became mayor, we are experiencing a swift and sharp increased number of homeless people in our downtown city Park area. This is on the beautiful island of Venice Florida. We are experiencing the same problems, trash left everywhere, body excretions being dropped in plain sight on sidewalks, using park benches as toilets, all of the issues mentioned in previous thread entries above. We had a homeless person who showed up behind our office. I gave him some shoes and clothing and offered him work. I told him that we would help him and get him cleaned up and get him on the right track. I offered to contact his family which he said he had a brother in Michigan. When I asked him about his brothers name and possible location he would not share the information with me. I continued to try to help him anyway. I told him that he could not use at the back of our office as a place for him to poop and pee and vomit. Long story short, we ended up having to have him trespassed a couple of times and had him jailed. The reason we had to be so harsh is that he did not want to work. He only wanted money to buy beer which, he left his beer cans and other trash all around the back of our offices. I find this to be true of many of the homeless people I have encountered. They group together because they are like-minded. They form a coalition and feel like they have strength in numbers. And they do! They bring an area down because of their habits and their aggressive behavior toward the normal working people and the disrespect for peoples property and businesses. When they gather and live in a city Park area, and often times there is nothing anyone can do because “ordinances” won’t allow for the removal of them. In our case here in Venice Florida it only started to become a problem since we acquired “the mayor” which I mentioned above. I have several police officers who are patients who are doing their best to protect us as business people. They know who these homeless people are and what their habits are. I personally do not live in the city or even the county where I work. However, I started a small “ concerned citizens” group to rid the city of this mayor and the city council members who side with him. In the last election cycle, we prevailed and gained back two seats on city council and we will continue to do our work in that area to protect our interests. I am just one guy who doesn’t have a problem running my mouth at work to share frustrations that we all experience as downtown city users and dwellers. As it turns out, most people are too busy working and caring for their families to stop and think about what they can do about the problem when they encounter it. in the last four months, I went from one loudmouth to 82 families who have formed together to have an influence on changing the face of the city Council to reflect the values and interests of the people they represent. We are not heartless bastards just trying to get rid of other human beings. But we will not continue to allow them to challenge and threaten our beautiful city and parks and businesses that we have worked so hard for. Some of you may have read about us or seen us in the news when the doctors at my clinic got together and signed mask exemption forms for school kids. This started a movement which has snowballed into a great community driven effort toward fixing the problems. You can have an effect on your community if you get involved. I don’t have Facebook or Instagram. But I do have exposure to a very large audience of local people who access our clinic and really like having the ability to utilize our services at a clean and safe environment. As it turns out, we are turning the tide in our little area by attending school board meetings and city Council meetings and the like. Unknowingly, I was able to band together several other groups who are on Facebook and other forms of social media. One of the biggest assets we have acquired is the support of the “mama bears” Who are angry that the parks where they take their kids to play and the beaches where we take our families are being destroyed by these disrespectful, Godless individuals. I agree as stated above, vote, get involved, you can make a difference when you get like-minded individuals together. There is strength in numbers, just look, it’s working for the homeless…
It doesn't matter where you go NORTH , SOUTH , EAST , WEST its EVERYWHERE guys . even small towns . You can't move away from it . . And it doesn't matter what color you are . Its ALL Colors . Even a town of 500 I know of . They have graduated to cutting out Catalytic converters to fuel their drug habits .
You must see a different Seattle than I see and have to drive in for work everyday. Its not just beside the freeway. Prosperous yes, Beautiful no. Each to our own opinion I didnt think you lived in Seattle thou I have compassion for those that are willing to help themselves, Just not the ones that want everything given to them ,that commit crimes after crime, trash our landscape with stripped stolen cars and piles of garbage and think our neighborhood streets are their toilet.
And there you go, head in the sand! I respect your opinion, but am reminded of your comment awhile back responding to my thread about the traffic commuting to Downtown Seattle. Complete blindness.
I visited Seattle 20 years ago . I was impressed with the beauty and friendliness of the it . Yes I visited all the tourists traps . One that impressed me was the space needle . What really got me was the lack of sight of any Police presence . I saw NO police in uniform . I'm sure they were undercover but just the absence of them in uniform was noticeable . And I didn't feel unsafe at any time . I really enjoyed it . I'm sure there are streets and areas you should avoid . Same as Philly in which I was born and raised and worked . some places are SCUMMY and other places are beautiful . Like I said before It doesn't matter which direction you go . ITS EVERYWHERE !!
Saw a news story about putting serial numbers on cats, to combat the issue. In the end all this is still costing the consumer more.
This thread assumes that most homeless people care about work or family. Most don't and I don't think most are driving 50k cars and living double lives that includes adding stench to their clothes in the AM to improve their take... The majority are in one of two camps, mentally disturbed or drug users. The former I have great empathy for, less so the latter. Mentally ill people are truly our community's burden to shelter and help. Anyone that has seen the impact of mental illness in a family member understands that no amount of "logic" is applicable. No different than a friend or neighbor with cancer, they are afflicted. The drug abusers are a different challenge. The money people give out at traffic lights fuels their habits. Why are their kids in their car with them?? Because they don't give a crap about their kids or anything else. Their kids are a pawn or much worse... their problem is getting money to buy drugs. I watched it happen across my yard in a very nice suburban neighborhood. The mom passed away in a freak accident, the husband got the insurance money at a time when he was already fond of Budweiser and spent every cent on drugs. In less than 2 years he lost his house and today he's in jail. Thankfully along the way we all banded together to get the inept child protection services to get his two young daughters away from him, before anything more serious happened. Let me tell you, this guy would have done anything to get a fix. He sold everything he owned and tried every scam he could to get money from anyone he ever met. He was a master manipulator and storyteller. People fell victim to the pitch. Your wasting your time telling me this guy or that guy doesn't want to work, etc. You are so wrong, they have a full-time job, getting money to get drugs. Work would get in the way of that... Applying logic to the situation is a critical error. Until they stop using, nothing else matters. Look at the numbers... more than 100,000 Americans died from drug overdoses between May 2020 and April 2021—the most ever recorded in a single year. How many of them were already homeless or pandering on the street, not all of them, but you see the connection... If the number of users is up, so are the number of folks sleeping under bridges. I don't honestly know how to solve that issue but telling people to "get a job" is not going to make a bit of difference. They are hooked. Is it bad morals, bad schools, bad drug companies...don't know. But that is the cause and the effect...
Aside from drug dependency and the mentally unstable issues you folks wisely bring to the conversation, how do we think one third of the population of Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Guatemala arriving in our country is going to play into this? Think there maybe some migration from other places as well? With supply and demand for housing of all types on the rise already, I am going to make the relatively easy assumption that homelessness in our cities is just getting started, as are other dwellings of the poor. Tent cities will eventually be joined by a mix of high density high rises and sub-permanent structures much like you see elsewhere in the world.
Well look at NY city in 1920 teeming with immigrants. Not pretty!! Today most of those folks are the grandparents or great grand parents that we talk about coming over on the boat. How do you think they were treated? I can tell you my grandparents weren’t welcomed with open arms… 90% of the people willing to walk here are not who worry me… Who is cooking in restaurants? Who is building houses, cleaning houses and landscaping? Around me, it’s usually someone speaking Spanish. In 1930 it was Poles or Irish or Germans or Italians. It was my grandfather, a guy that mowed lawns when he came here, that insisted his daughter was going to college in the 1950s when his friends told him he was wasting his money sending a girl to school. He wanted a better life. I think it’s harder to get ahead now but many will get there. Yep there are some scum that comes with this crowd but they came in 1925 too…
People who came here on the boat did it with the intent of becoming legalized citizens which probably 99% of them achieved. The ones coming here now are coming here to suck off of the system and take advantage of all of the social programs and handouts that are now offered them. It’s apples to oranges 1930s to now
NY is still teeming with immigrants. Immigrants back in the 30's were required to have a sponsor who was financially responsible for them. There were no food stamps and free health care and all the programs that they take advantage of. Today we legally accept over 1,000,000 immigrants a year.
Unrestricted immigration is a problem, but the folks living in tents and shitting on the sidewalks aren’t immigrants; they’re natural born citizens. Most of the illegals I’ve experienced will rent a trailer or apartment and put 10 people in it and will buy a van that they all share. I do accept that there are ne’er do wells, thieves and grifters among them, but even they sleep indoors at night. Patrick
Yeah, we aren't in 1920 or 1930 anymore. Even Dorothy would say it to Toto if she could. European immigrants came in legally, they had to be because they came across an ocean and docked, for the most part. You mention their successful plight after they were here. It is only true because they wanted to adopt to our way of life, our language, and our allegiance. So much so they watched their next generation take up arms to defend this nation, even against their homelands. In recent years, we have allowed a record 1.1 million legal immigrants per year. What is the line almost as old as time, "Everything in moderation"? As we know, a lot of immigrants bring more family into the U.S. as soon as they get established. There is no way all of this immigration, both legal and illegal, isn't going to put a strain on the resources we have at hand. A million additional illegal immigrants per year, even with 10 in an apartment at a time, will have implications on apartment rents. The number of disenfranchised will increase and there will be a corresponding increase in the number of homeless. Am I wrong in thinking perhaps there are consequences to poor decision making, failing to enforce the borders, and disrespecting the law? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/truck-crash-kills-49-migrants-injures-58-southern-mexico-rcna8307
Maybe we should make citizenship tests required for anyone on public assistance, including those born here versus the current ‘natural born’ status not being revokable. If you fail it, and can’t pass it after a set period, you could be deported. (I don’t know where we’d send those who were born here, though. Maybe Mexico?) Patrick
I agree, hard to compare the legal immigration of the early 20th century to what is going on now. Back then, the US was an emerging nation, hungry for workers in the midst of the industrial revolution, and just ripe with opportunity for even the average joe to make a good living, and support his family and the generations to come. And unlike what we often see now, these folks wanted to become Americans. When my great grand-father came to this country around 1890, he "Americanized" our last name. In Germany, it was Wize, he changed the Z to an S and added an E to make it seem more "American". Funny, there has always been several in my family, that pronounce my last name differently.. my Grandfather's kids (my dad, uncle and aunt) pronounce it Weiss... where as their father, influenced by his father, who knew the original spelling and pronunciation, always pronounced it "Wise", as the original spelling would suggest. But the point is, they wanted to be American.. Did German, Irish and Italian neighborhoods exist in NYC in the early 20th century?.. Sure, but that was more about when you showed up, and about familiarity with customs and traditions and religion, than it was about not wanting to be seen as an " American." They as a whole were not interested in being any kind of "hyphenated" group.. (Irish-American, for example, is not part of our common language). That desire is not the same anymore, nor do we have the industrial base to provide jobs that can support a family. We no longer have a worker hungry manufacturing industry here.. those jobs have been shipped, ironically, often to the countries where these folks are coming from. So now, on top of the hundreds of thousands of legal immigrants we allow in every year, we are getting inundated with hundreds of thousands of illegals, and down the road here, this is going to be a huge drain on our social safety nets. I agree, most of these illegals want to work, but we have to have jobs for them, and once the government stops subsidizing the lazy, they will have to go back to work again.. and there will not enough jobs for everyone. JW
Patrick - If the child was born here, he/she is an American citizen. The USA is one of (I believe) only two modern, industrialized countries in the world to have this policy. Personally, I think that it is a horrible policy and should be changed, but I doubt that it will be. I also agree with JW about a certain group of immigrants not wanting to be Americans. Where I live, Spanish is a more useful language then English. This is going to become a more and more serious problem as time goes by; we cannot function as "one nation..." if we cannot communicate with each other.
JW, would Weiss be pronounced Vice in German? Found this... https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+pronounce+in+german&client=tablet-android-verizon&sxsrf=AOaemvLrd0jttJPkQJGG3YuhN_Zc9Cc6BQ:1639236827591&ei=28S0YaC7I4Hl_Qa7wZCIBQ&oq=how+to+pronounce+in+german&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjoECAAQRzoECAAQQzoHCAAQsQMQQzoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwFQshFYsFFg01RoAHABeACAAaYFiAG6FZIBCzAuNC4xLjAuMi4ymAEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp
I guess I should have been more clear (so I edited that post). I know that being born here makes a person a citizen (and entitled to all the rights thereof). I’m saying that maybe it shouldn’t be. If a person isn’t upholding his end of the bargain (supporting himself to the best of his ability, obeying the law, working within the system to change things he disagrees with, respecting the rights of others, being civil) then maybe his citizenship status should be re-examined. If we did change their status, then we might be able to force them into treatment, and provide them that as part of the modern CCC system. Their choice would be ‘accept help and be productive’ or deportation. Patrick As an aside, Georgia’s constitution prevents a judge from banishing a convicted person from the state, but it allows banishing them from specific counties. Judges will ban a criminal from 158 of our 159 counties and buy them a bus ticket to the one not excluded. The ACLU doesn’t like it but the counties they’ve been removed from do. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-nov-11-mn-2736-story.html
I heard someone make an interesting point about the types of migration. If you were in Bulgaria in 1900 and wanted to come to America, you would save for years for the boat ticket, then travel halfway around the world knowing that you would never see the old country again. You were 100% committed to your new home. Most people who came this way have stories of not being allowed to speak their mother languages at home so they would learn American... I mean English. If America is one bus ride away and you can go back anytime you want, it is a very different type of commitment to your new country. We are also creating dis-incentives to integration, such as offering schooling for immigrant children in their native languages. If those children don't learn English, how can they aspire to integrate into society or get any half-decent job?? Why would they condemn these people to a life of marginalization by preventing them from learning English? Another fact people often forget of the Ellis Island years - Back then nearly 40% of all immigrants were either sent back right away (being sick or having no sponsors or means to support themselves)... Or chose to return to their native countries after sometime. Remember, this is before the welfare state.
