gto to all of you guys out there knocking the new gto, i agree its not great styling, but at least its got a powerplant that can perform, unlike the REGAL GS which has trouble getting out of the 15s. AT LEAST PONTIAC IS TRYING! buick needs some serious help or theyll be the next olds.
the gto is a fine car inside , and dave great performance , but the designers never listened to the public . let us hope that chrysler changes the design of the new charger to have at least some semblance to the old chargers .
Re: gto I don't know about that, or if the Grand Prix has the same motor in it, but my daughter in law just bought a new GP...............since day 1, every time she starts it, you can hear the crankshaft bearings rap for a few seconds until the oil starts building up pressure. I don't consider that quality on a brand new car. uzzled:
Why would GM build f-bodies again anyway?? If they build a new Camaro or Firebird (so the rumours swirl) they will be using a new updated chassis (Sigma?)Tthe f-bod is done...just as the a-body is long gone, but a new maro/bird can be built elsewhere... later Tim
I used the term F Bodies because as long as I've lived it was synonymous with Firebird/Camaro. The GM/UAW/Canada agreement is that St. Therese will be the only plant to build Camaros/Firebirds.
I don't know about that, or if the Grand Prix has the same motor in it, but my daughter in law just bought a new GP...............since day 1, every time she starts it, you can hear the crankshaft bearings rap for a few seconds until the oil starts building up pressure. I don't consider that quality on a brand new car. __________________ Hey, my sister's $50K Lexus SUV has a knock at cold start and idle at 45,000 miles....my 96 Regal is quiet as a mouse at 145,000. Nothing is perfect..... Bruce
Just wait a few thousand miles. If it's anything like my Grand Am, you haven't seen anything yet! I certainly hope that it's better, for your sake.
from the offset I thought the GTO was a lump of Grand Am garbage but when you put the scoops and stripes on, it don't look to bad. Althought I have to agree with one guy from Motor Trend who said "the GTO should look, well butch" and I agree with that statement a lot too. So I'm in the middle, GTO w/o stripes and scoops looks crummy but with them they look pretty cool. Patrick
Let me tell you something, Im the service director for a Pontiac/Nissan dealer. Pontiac warranty repairs out number Nissan by 3 to 1. I am in no way prompting jap cars and have always sided with American ( more so GM ) but, GM tends to put out real crap ( I see it 1st hand) Its a real shame, but its no wonder the jap cars last twice as long as ours.
BQUICK said:I don't know about that, or if the Grand Prix has the same motor in it, but my daughter in law just bought a new GP...............since day 1, every time she starts it, you can hear the crankshaft bearings rap for a few seconds until the oil starts building up pressure. I don't consider that quality on a brand new car. __________________ I didn't say the above, I said the below: Hey, my sister's $50K Lexus SUV has a knock at cold start and idle at 45,000 miles....my 96 Regal is quiet as a mouse at 145,000. Nothing is perfect..... Bruce
The new GTO reminds me of the re-styled Ducati 999. Ducati went from having the most stylish and best handling open-class bike on the market to the ugliest and best handling open-class bike on the market. The new Ducati is absolutely horrible looking, but even more so when compared to the model it replaced, arguably the sexiest bike ever made. All the moto journalists will tell you how utterly stupid and uninformed you are for attacking the styling, because it handles performs so well. (The entire Ducati lineup is vomit inducing these days; have you seen the new dual sport!) But, what Ducati didn't understand, what the "expert journalists" didn't understand, and what GM doesn't understand, that there is much more involved in a purchase like this than performance. Style, appearance, grace, and guttural response count for alot. People won't drop huge coin on a bike that looks like an Italian acid trip, period. Ask Harley-Davidson. They could build a better bike, but don't because they get it. VRod notwithstanding. All the performance hounds that will tell you the aesthetic doesn't matter, only the performance make me smile.
Started reading this thread last Friday, which made me pay attention to an a test drive article in the newspaper over the weekend. The writer was really trying to promote the car. Flip the paper to the lower half of the section's front page and there was an ad for a local Pontiac dealer- $5,000 off new GTOs. Special, today only, just for you, drive out a new GTO for $29,995. Think they would like to sell every one of them for that. I'd wager that it's $7,000 off within 30 days. It certainly is a better car for $28k than $35k, but it's LITTLE. Didn't realize how much so until I drove next to one yesterday.
Joe I am not kidding Joe! And buy the way I have been admiring your 67 Riv. It's my favorite year! OK, I could be wrong about the SSR pick up so lets see what the other guys think! SSR Pick-UP...does it spark any thoughts of yesteryear? GTO...Does it spark any thoughts of yesteryear? Who wins guys? SSR Chevy Pick-up....or...2005 GTO:
Interesting comparison, SSR vs. GTO vs. C-5 SSR, 300HP V8 ?TQ, auto, 2 seat w/storage, $46K GTO, 350HP, 370TQ V8, M-6, 4 seat w/storage, $33K C-5, 350HP, 375TQ V8, M-6, 2 seat coupe, 44K Booth have styling que's from their heritage, but the SSR looks like,...well a '50 pickup. GTO's styling at least has evolved. If I wanted a truck that looked like a '50 pickup, I'd buy a '50 pickup. If I wanted a '04 GTO to look like a '65-67 GTO, I'd buy a '65-67 GTO. Retro cars will always be just that - retro cars, a carbon copy of the original. The GTO was always supposed to be a evolution of the cars lineage, never intended as a copy of an original. If we are waiting for GM to build cars that looked like '60's era cars, we will be waiting a long time, been there done that. Would you really want to have a '05 GS that looked a lot like your classic GS?
I couldn't agree more. To me, it's no different than marketing a house. If it looks like a sh!tbox on the outside, but the inside is awesome and has all the bells and whistles, it still has to overcome the initial disappointment of walking up to it and looking at it. ON THE OTHER HAND, you can much more easily sell a house if it looks outstanding on the exterior but is a little less impressive on the interior. First impressions are everything, cars or houses....and the GTO has no first impression. That's it's biggest flaw. Great engine, great idea, wrong package.
GP does not share parts with the GTO. GP's are front wheel drive and share components with the Monte Carlo and Regal/Century. The standard GP uses the "corporate" (Chevy) 3.4L. The GT uses the "corporate" (Buick) 3.8L and the GTP uses the supercharged 3.8L. It would not surprise me that a 3.4L would have a rod knock, but it would if it were the 3.8L. Another point is it may not be a knock. These have roller cams and the rockers tend to make quite a bit of noise. My 2000 Regal GS was noisy, but lived through my hard driving for 3 years and 72000 miles with no trips to the shop before I traded it in on my wife's Tahoe.
Re: Joe Thanks for the compliment, Eric! In answer to your question, I would have to say neither.......I think the SSR is an ugly oversized behemuth.........it's the new Mustang that I'd pick, hands down..........nothing GM is currently making interests me at all. :bglasses:
Bottom line with the "new age of musclecars" is, they need their own identity. You can have your own identity and still bring in past styling queues. Buick has been doing it for decades with the grilles and port holes and to be quite honest, even in this day and age of cookie cutter cars, Buick in my opinion still doesn't look like "every other car". The GTO looks like a Honda or Toyota in my opinion. That's not good. Now we are copying their styling? What the hell for? I have one idea why; because we are largely the only group of people left who don't subscribe to the look of rice. Whatever, it's a sensitive subject amongst musclecar enthusiasts. We take our cars very seriously and how can you take the look of that Australian ricer seriously?
Oddly enough, I happen to love that new retro GM pickup. It's a factory hot rod. Since when has that been uncool? As for the look of it, that's strictly personal preference. There's no argument to be made in either direction. I happen to think it's very cool looking on TV. Never saw one in person yet.
