I am sure the price is suggested retail,I know most of Edelbrocks heads are sold for less than that by most places,so i wouldn't rule it out that they would be around $1200-$1400 ASSEMBLED,unlike TA's $1500 bare sets that need valvework. Fact is TA has always been priced far and above what others are,it takes the same amount of material (maybe less?) to cast a big block chevy head,but TA charges twice as much for theirs.Market size not withstanding,if they really were here for "us" the price would be about the same and that excuse would be non existent. We have said TA puts its money back into the hobby....what every few years with a new high $$ product? So where are those 350 intakes and heads at TA worshippers? I mean $500 for a timing cover? Not in my lifetime will I spend that for a timing cover.You might get suckered into beleiving its worth it,not me. I bought my TA block because they are the only ones making it and the price was reasonable,I say was...because they are now around $500 more.HMMMM here for "us" huh. better look again buds.More like here for TA.The heads I got because the vendor cut me a good deal including porting on them. I have not dealt with TA directly,only through vendors and some of the stories I have heard from guys who have are not shining on their customer service.
Yep and AMC is still pumping them out right? How about them Olds motors? Ever seen a brand new pontiac 389 in a new bonneville? They made far less 351C motors and Edelbrock is making heads and intakes for them too now. So let's all spit into the wind and piss away any chances of them making SBB heads or intakes,or even a decent single plane for the 455 that doesn't cost over $300. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.
...from my previous post... I built motors with Buick Factory Iron heads, or TA Aluminum heads. Period While some of you may read this and think that is a bad business decision for an independent Buick-only company like mine, I look deeper at the situation, and toward the future, not just today, and how can I shave a couple bucks off for myself. In a few days I will turn 39 years old, and wish to still be building Buicks when I am 59.. so it's in my best interest to keep our primary vendor strong. Big picture thinking.. to the average guy out there, it can be hard to get your head around the concept, so I took the time to explain it. And then there is this... compared to other aspects of my business (if you recall we do everything to GS's, from Tube Chassis race cars to Concours resto's) real world profit on engines is small...so my livelyhood is not at all based on profit from building motors.. which is a good thing, because I know a lot of engine machinists, and I don't know any of them that are getting rich.. it's a tough way to make a living, just building motors. All I had to see was this.. And I did not tell anyone to do anything.. I am merely reminding folks to think about the future, when choosing who to spend their Buick money with. Often times we can't see the forest.. for the trees.. JW
This is better than your "kickback" deal.. :laugh: ya.. like anything we say here will make the least difference to a company like EB.. it's all about the money, when the balance sheet looks right, they make the part. It is apparent that you have an axe to grind here.. which invalidates your arguments.. we can all see that.
I spoke to MIKE T yesterday and he said that it is possible he might make a deal to sell the EB heads at TA . Although he might just have been a little frustrated . mike
And you aren't grinding an axe ? I have no axe to grind.I use and like TA's parts,do i disagree with the "they take care of us" hullabaloo?....yes. TA is a business just like EB,they all do one thing ...what makes them money. You can say it invalidates my argument all you want,it doesn't take away from the fact that you are obviously closed minded on the subject. Where you see Edelbrock making heads to take advantage of the Buick market,I see TA doing the same,no difference between them. I also see Edelbrock having the resources and the possibility of making the parts that TA obviously doesn't think will make them alot of money.Once again proof that TA performance is actually a BUSINESS and not necessarily your friend either.So lets throw all the kissy face BS out and have an open mind. Honest fact,if the Buick market for heads and such dried up tommorrow,you could bet that TA would go the way of Kenne Bell and find someone else to sell parts to.So loyalty is a relative term. Go ahead and stay behind those trees...
TA is after all a business and that would be one way to offset some of the competition that the edelbrock heads will give him by filling the empty spot between stock stage1s and TA stage 1s. He may even be able to offer them with some cnc work assembled for a decent price.
Aluminum heads. Hi Guy's. I think i will wait and see how these new heads turn out and what kind of flow numbers they produce before i buy a set. I know one thing it is very costly to build a stout Buick 455 the performance parts are high$$$$$$. Hell and then to have it fly apart is a real pain in the bag and pocket too. I wish the parts where as cheap as the chevy stuff that would be great. I bet you would see alot more faster buicks out there then because the average guy would be able to afford it more and enjoy it. :3gears: Billy.
I think that these heads will create a buzz in the gearhead world. I also believe that if there is a buzz about the BBB, then there will in fact be a buzz for Buicks in general. If these heads are only slightly better than stock, they will still make decent street heads, since the stock heads make good power anyway. You dismissed the heads, and then laid out quite the lengthy arguement as to why. You Sir carry a lot of weight, lots of people respect your word, and look to you for answers. Your name carries alot of weight in this community, so when you say you won't use them, you just made up the minds of alot of people. Your negative buzz is very contagious. Also, you don't think Edelbrock realized there is a market, and want to take advantage of it? I agree PSmith, Business is business, and TA will sell what they need to stay afloat. Kinda like their rearend girdles.
I'm still sticking to my original question, why didn't Edelbrock develope a nice RPM Air Gap manifold for the BBB before heads?? I bet they would they would sell a lot more manifolds than heads.
I think you are right,they would sell more manifolds. But I would guess they know that the performer makes pretty good #s itself and the plan would be to introduce new intakes to support better heads later. I don't know how it all works,but i am sure there has been a marketing strategy lined out.
Let me start by saying that if I do have brand loyalty, to any company, it's because they've earned it! But I still keep an open mind towards new product offerings. I would think that Edelbrock put alot of R&D into their offerings for the highly competitive Ford and Chevy market. Their success in those markets can't be deemed a reliable indicator as to the performance of the 400,430,455 head. A better indicator is the performance of the Pontiac, Olds, and Mopar heads which isn't that good. As a side note, the victor jr head out of the box doesn't flow as well as the TFS-R or AFR 205 for the 5.0. With extensive professional port work the jr turns into a well performing head with a really nice flowing exhaust port. But a worked AFR will outflow it on both intake and exhaust throughout the lift range and the TFS outflows it on the intake side. Cheers, Steve
i dont know why you guys are comparing buicks to chevys. i have buicks, i race buicks. my passion is buicks!!! and if it wasnt for kenne-bell leading the way over 30 yrs ago and t/a picking up where jim left off, we would be the way of the nash left out in no mans land. i could care less what chevy, ford, olds, amc, mopars manufactures do. so why are we comparing them. if you want chevy or whatever products, go do it. matter of fact, call edelbrock and try talking to their people, they dont have a clue what a buick is. been there, done that.
That is an apples to oranges comparison and anyone with a little sense can see that. A true comparison would be an out of the box Edelbrock to an unported factory spec stage 1 head. If the Edelbrock head makes 30 hp more it works as advertised.Comparing a ported stock head to the out of the box edelbrock is not fair because you are not adding in the extra labor,cost,and weight of the stock heads.If you want to do that comparison,do bowl work and some clean up to both...bet the edelbrock would take less time and work than the stock head. Those guide bosses are extremely fat,if edelbrock even just makes that area better it would probably make plenty more power. I think you guys with the ultra expensive stage 21 or whatever TA heads are afraid some guys gonna clean your clocks with a home ported set of edelbrocks for 1/3 the price. :spank:
Then why did why you make it? :laugh: How is it not fair if one invests the same amount into rebuilding/porting O.E. vs spending on new? What? :spank: No response ou: Cheers, Steve
You do realise that 4 or 5 years ago NOS BBB timing covers were commonly selling for $300 to $375 each don't you and people were buying them?? The TA timing cover is much nicer than the factory designed cover in looks and more importantly how it effects the all important oil pressure in these motors. I gladly paid $375 for mine and didn't think twice about it. Considering the amount of money I have in the rest of the motor that was chump change. My idle oil pressure went from 16-17PSI @ idle to 22-23PSI @ idle and about a 8-10 PSI improvement all through the RPM range. I made no other changes other than swapping the front covers. If wanting to extend the life of my engine makes me a "sucker" then a sucker I shall be.
You think they are gona put out a crappy set of heads ?that flow less than hopped up stockers?? get real.The only reason TA dominates and flow so good is because they are the ONLY ones that bothered messing with Buick's.Had Aero,Indy you name it bothered to make a performance head im sure they would compete with no problem. By the way I have a set of Eddy 440 heads on my Cuda and it runs just as strong as my $8500 Buick 455 but cost me 1/2 as much! :shock: Maybe if prices come down to reasonable levels we will see more Buicks kicking ass...but I think this is my first and last $8500 motor ! If Eddys got a set of cheaper heads to compete with TA than I more than welcome them :TU:
Competition is good for the hobby. I personally welcome a company with DEEP pockets into the Buick aftermarket industry. True, TA has come to market with a lot of nice stuff for our Buicks over the years. But they were not alone. KB and Colteryahn with their AWESOME intake, Edelbrock with the B4B and Performer (thats right, 2 intakes from Edelbrock including the wonderful B4B which is capable of 9 second performance), Mickey and Ed with headers, T and D with the roller rockers, Moldex with cranks, Bulldog with heads and hopefully a block, Mesiere with an awesome water pump, CSI with starters, tons of companies with pistons, Stef's with an oil pan, and many many others including MSD and Stinger with distributors. But guess what, TA Mike survived. So why the big fuss over these new heads??? The market is ALREADY FLOODED with 455 intake manifolds from TA, EB and others, why would EB want to make ANOTHER in addition to the TWO they already provide to us. ou: Point being, if you want to buy from TA, then buy from TA. But leave the others as options for the rest of us who may want better customer service at a better price. And dont say EB doesnt reinvest into our hobby, they made the B4B, REINVESTED into the Performer, REINVESTED BACK into the B4B, and they have now REINVESTED into a set of cylinder heads. :rant: Cylinder heads that will give options like Chevy roller rockers etc. Less expensive options for the good of our hobby. Hooray for Edelbrock! :TU:
"QuoteS Smith I think you guys with the ultra expensive stage 21 or whatever TA heads are afraid some guys gonna clean your clocks with a home ported set of edelbrocks for 1/3 the price." :laugh: Oh please..... :sleep: I'll be waiting...zzzzzzzzzz You know guys this thread has gotten so off base, almost like do you like Coke over Pepsi. The bottom line is "competition is good" and as far as Edelbrock is concerned, I do hope they make the heads especially the 350 heads first as this market is wide open, but just like every other performance part made for Buicks, just don't go and hold your breath too long. I guess everyone will have to wait and see, but all of this BS going back and forth serves no purpose other than to piss people off. I'll be back to this thread once these heads become a reality.
I can only go with what I was told buy this Pontiac owner. He already owned the heads, and was disapointed in what he measured at the track. That's the best advice I've heard all day!
