Car is stuck on the street again :-( need some engine mechanics figured out..

What does a broken camshaft look like? Just rounded out or broken as in different pieces?

If I had the car in behind the house I wouldn't mind taking off the heads or attempting a cam swap, but out on the street for the first time with two days to go before I get a tow to never ever return land.. ich don't think so..

60 hours to go..... ... .. we need a solution.

 

Quick way to check for a broken camshaft would be to remove both valve covers, then turn the engine over while watching all the pushrods to see if they are operating the rocker arms up and down. Be much easier with an assistant.

If you have rocker arms that don't move (likely at back of engine) I'd bet tomorrows lunch that cam is broken. This could be cause of your rough running condition.

 

If both the chain and the cam was gone ou: ... that's next on the list :TU: First I will have to see the Sweden vs banana land soccer match, then we're back in Buick land again.

If so, who sells a cam in Los Angeles on a Saturday evening? A hot one, with a 1.000.000 horsepower guaranteed :grin:

 

Another thing to consider as I have read it here before, is that you have a defective set of gears. Maybe the camshaft gear was turned 180 on the assembly line when it got marked (if that can happen)?

 

I went back to read all the posts on this thread, and this leapt from the screen at me:

Did you possibly damage the cap?? Did you replace it??

OK, now for some more musing. Are you 100% certain that the cam is correctly aligned with the crank?? From reading the posts about how the timin chain has likely slipped, and your efforts to re-align cam and crank, could it be that now they are 180 degrees out??

Here's something else. With all your attempts to start it, the engine could be so badly flooded with raw gas that the spark plugs are too wet to fire. Yes, that may seem odd, but I've seen that many times, although usually when it's somewhere south of -35 degrees C.

Solution: remove plugs, dry thoroughly, put giddyup pedal to floor, hold there, turn engine over for several seconds. Then install now dry plugs, put giddy up pedal to floor and hold, turn engine over. Keep starter engaged until engine finally starts. Once engine runs smoothly, change oil ASAP, as its will be mixed with raw gas. Another way to check for flooded engine is remove dipstick, and smell for gasoline, this isn't fool proof, but may help to diagnose this.

I'm getting tired now, time for some :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: We'll check in Sat AM.

 

She sounds like a keeper. :TU:

 

I have a different HEI on there now, so that should be ok.
You can only install the cam gear one way ( bolts drilled off center) so that should be ok.

The plugs were dry last time I had them out during this treasure hunt, and the
car has started which should clear a flooding situation?

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I've found this at:
http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/a/bl303a_2.htm

Engine backfires when you press on the gas pedal:
The engine runs like garbage. When you step on the gas the engine pops , spits and backfires. Sometimes it's loud or not so loud. This can cause severe engine damage and/or underhood fire.
Possible causes:

1. Your camshaft timing belt or chain may have slipped: Replace timing belt or chain.

2. Your ignition timing needs adjusting: Adjust ignition timing.

3. There is a serious engine problem: You may have a burnt or broken valve, Worn or broken camshaft.

4. Your spark plug wires are placed on the wrong spark plugs: Check firing order and place the wires on the correct spark plugs.


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Sounds like what we're working with here o No: , chain is fixed, second issue here?

 

ha ha ha.. she was out there again today eyeing the alignment between the gears, giving me the ok..

 

Timing

That crank and cam IS IN TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, put the front back on the engine and drop the dist in the hole and then WHEREEVER the rotor is pointing, put no 1 spark plug wire there and then wire the rest around the dist cap in the firing order. Then the engine should start. If it back fires half the cyls out thru the intake and half thru the exhaust then The dist ONLY is 180 deg. out. Just the dist. Pull it out and rotate 180 deg and drop it back in and it should start.
Think, The no1 piston is at tdc, the cam is timed right, the only thing that can be off is the dist. It is either right on or 180 off. If it is right on the engine will run if 180 off it wont. nuff said. :Brow:

 

Right! Button it back up.

You swapped distributors and still had the same problem, right?

Was the same coil in the car each time?

Did you replace the cap after you dropped it?

Try replacing the coil.

Then rotate engine while watching the #1 intake valve close. Roll it until you are at 0* TDC, then drop in the dist. If it won't drop right in, don't bump the key to try and get it to seat. You may jump time. Instead, use a screwdriver to rotate the oil pump rod until it lines up correctly with the roll pin in the bottom of the distributor and lets it drop right in.

Then Put the #1 plug wire right where the rotor is pointing (most probably at the passenger front corner of the car) and wire them clockwise 18436572.

 

I had the distributor in and out 19 times in the last few weeks. I've tried two different one's, maybe even three when I come to think about it; all with their own different coils (comes built in). All distributors run fine, had em running in the Centruion and the one with the cracked cap is in the Centurion now "doing a heck of a job" just to quote someone famous. With the vacuum blocked off or not blocked off we have had it set to 0 degrees, +4/ +8 /+12 degrees on the timing cover scale; hand adjusted up and down the scale to look for a spot where the engine would smoothen out, while the engine was running, and it made no difference.. The engine still ran like crap under all circumstances. If it would have been 180 degrees off, then it wouldn't have been running at all right? Just a backfire occasionaly while cranking.. We have electricity to the distributor too (but I will measure that again just to be extra extra sure) since that was the problem a few months ago. Next is to check the cam, it's not coming together until I've taken that extra precaution.

 

When you turn the engine over with the large wrench and socket attached to the front of the engine; it feels a bit uneven. There will be some parts of the turn that are harder and some that are with less resistance, any ideas on this? I could understand that right at the compression strokes it would become a bit harder, but it doesn't feel that "even" while turning..

 

Kimson,
I want to touch on something no one has mention.
after reading the whole thread again. you said that even before the car died that it
ran like crap. no power etc. does the car have a catyletic converter on it still??
what your explaining about barely running sure sounds like you could have a plugged exhaust. even if your converter is empty you could have a collapsed pipe or something.
if the bolts arent too rusty, try opening up the exahaust at the manifolds or before the converter and see if it will run.
you have been over everything else a 1000 times. an engine needs fuel spark and compression to run, but also needs an unobstructed path for the spent exhaust.
good luck
Larry

 

Excellent advice Larry. :TU: Don't think anyone else ever considered that the catalytic convertor could be completely plugged. ou:
I've seen that before too, albeit years ago.

 

what reminded me of it was the carb belching gas and no power even when he opens the throttle. when I worked for cadillac back in the early 80s, I bet we saw 2 or more a week towed in , with the same symptoms. could very well happen with jumped timing and running rich.

 

It has a dual exhaust with those long loud mufflers on it, with no catalytic converter.

There were no bananas in the exhaust either.

We tried to see how the valve springs were operating but it's so hard to tell how much they're moving. They were all going up and down, but not by the same amount according to gf, with some of them having a smoother movement, and others didn't go up as much etc..

How tricky is it to pull the cam out and inspect it and put it back in there again? Any special tools needed, lots of work?

 

Could we have a really bad vacuum leak that makes it not suck enough fuel into the engine?

 

there could be a number of things causing this but you have to start by ellimination.
it ran before, so if you have changed nothing else except the timing chain, it should run again at least a little better than it did before it crapped out.
if you had any large backfires associated with the timing chain going out, it very well could have plugged or collapsed the mufflers. dont assuume anything is ok, CHECK it to be sure!
there is a possibility that the cam is wore but once again , it didnt wear out sitting there so it should at least run like it did before. If you can get it to run, turn the dist. counter clockwise while its running and see what happens. if its not exhaust blockage it has to be the timing isnt advanced enough. take one thing at a time and be patient
trying to time it with a light while just cranking isnt going to get you a very accurate reading.
hope ive been some help.
good luck :TU:
Larry

 

I realize I'm jumping in late here, but after reading all 4 pages, I think it's just a simple problem.

As I understand it, the car ran fine before, and then just basically quit, correct? If so, you found the problem in the timing chain.

Therefore;
1. original carb is fine.
2. original distributor is fine.
3. don't worry about 'vacuum' or air leaks. That's not the problem right now, unless you've torn your carb gasket.
4. I don't believe the cam is broken. I don't believe it would run at all if so.

You've gotten good advice already, but I think you're just overlooking something simple now. It happens, especially after you've been working on it for days, trying and re-trying parts. We've all done it.

SO:
1. get the balancer back on the 'zero' mark on the timing indicator.
2. with the valve cover off, make sure both valves on #1 cylinder are closed. or nearly so (the rockers will be somewhat loose; or you should be able to spin the pushrods with your fingers)
3. drop the distributor back in as described by others. Sounds like you have been doing it correctly.
4. while the GF cranks the engine, make sure all the rocker arms are moving up and down. They should be...they were before the car quit, and you've already found the timing set to be the problem, not the rockers.
5. double check your firing order. Easy to get it wrong.
6. put new spark plugs in. You've been cranking it so much, one or more is likely fouled by now.
7. leave the screwdriver in the toolbox, not in the carb.
8. pour just a bit of gas ino the carb to prime it, if necessary.
9. have the GF start cranking. This sure sounds to me where the problem is....while she's cranking, turn the distributor by hand until it starts and begins to run smooth. Remember also, if the car was a bit cold-blooded before, it will need time to warm up now. You can also help the GF by 'feathering' the throttle by hand as it's warming up, and you're gently moving the distributor.

It sure sounds to me like you simply don't have the timing quite right yet...at distributor, that is.

Also, be safe! You've probably got the air cleaner off. Don't have your face over the carb.....keep clear of the belts and fan.....

Don't give up! Obviously there are several people here that want to help. You'll get it. Then you can take the GF for a celebratorial beer. :beer

 

Worn out cam lobe.

Hi, Did the motor run good and strong before it would not start again.
If you pulled both valve covers and turned the motor over and watched the push rod's and rocker's go up and down and they looked uneven in travel.
Like you said some look smoother than other's it may be a wiped cam lobe. o No:


Billy.