Car is stuck on the street again :-( need some engine mechanics figured out..

I parked the Riv a few days ago coming back from the body shop class, where the floor is being put in. A day or two later I come out to start it and it starts but dies, I try again and it fires but doesn't want to start. So I check the timing and it's off a bit, correct it and the car won't fire at all. I check the timing and and it's still off, so I correct it again, and now a fountain of gas shoots out the carb and the car won't fire at all. I keep fiddling with it, but never get it right. I believe that this time the chain really has slipped, but I want to make sure I know what is really going on.

If the timing mark is set at zero, the distributor is set to point at the no.1 spark plug, what should be the next thing that happens under the valve cover for the no.1 valves? Do they open at the the top position for the piston, or slightly before or after? I want to figure out if the chain has slipped by seeing if the crank is out of synch with the cam, but I don't really know at which points the valves are supposed to open at? Which valve is gas in, and which is exhaust out? Do cams wear out?

 

your dist is a tooth or two out. take out sparky #1 and find top dead center then see which way your rotor is pointing to what plug wire. Ajust until the rotor is the right direction.

 

your timing can be off 180 degrees and that won't cause gas to spit out the carb. sounds like your float is stuck to me. try whacking the carb with the handle of a screwdriver. this might free the float up. if you wan to check your valve timing, take a valve cover off and spin the engine by hand. as the timing mark on the blancer line su with the mark on the cover both valves should be closed. I doubt your chain skipped though. I place all my money on the carb.

 

Fuel spitting out of the carb is definitely a carbuerator problem. But if you set your timing and it immediately appears out again, check the pin in the distributor gear. Could have sheared!
-STEVE

 

I changed the carb over from the Centurion to the Riv, but it still had the spitting fuel problem. It's like it's not building vacuum to suck it into the intake, but spits it out instead.. What could cause something like that? Should I put a vacuum gauge on it and see what kind of reding it gives? I have one installed in the Centurion, but I could always take it out for something like this..

Checked the pin, and it was fine, BUT... I shot it with the timing light and it didn't light up. ??? :error: So I changed the distributor into another one and the light lit up. If there isn't one thing there's always two.. sigh.

The car still won't fire and I've swapped it 180 degrees back and forth just to make sure I haven't messed it up when it's been off. Now the distributor seems to stay in the same position, and I set it to something like 6 degrees, we have spark, and we have fuel, but it spits it up out of the carb! I put a screwdriver all the way through it and locked the throttle halfway and shot it with ether while cranking, but still not firing..

Chain? Carb? something else..? I would hate to have to babysit it on the street for three hours on Tuesday, while they clean the street, I think they're starting to take notice uzzled: of the idiot ou: with the old Buicks.

 

o No: its possible that the plugs are fouled out now. it is very odd that both carbs spit fuel out. what are you using for a pump? a factory deal or some sort of electric aftermarket pump? its possible that you are building way to much pressure. even if the valve timing jumped so bad that the intake valves opened as the piston came up, the carb would not shoot gas up. venturis are a one way system.

 

I replaced the plugs not too long ago, but as you say.. who knows o No: .. The pump is a stock mechanical one, it sure shoots fuel, almost like a little fountain out the carb too uzzled: .. Will the engine only create vacuum if it's firing, or will cranking do just fine?

 

The car ran kind of weak when it was running, it would take off fine, but the get real sluggish when you got moving. Not too fun on the freeway .. Could this be some kind of indication to a problem that would lead to this state we're in? I was going to sort that out after I got the floor put in, but I guess the priorities are sorted by the car itself .

 

it will create vacuum by cranking only, with out firing.

 

Sounds to me like the timing chain may have indeed jumped a tooth or many teeth. If the intake valves are opening and closing at the wrong time the engine will force air back up through the carb backwards and shoot fuel out of the carb. This can also bend the valves.

One way you can tell is to remove the distributor cap and crank the engine. Watch the rotor to see if it is rotating constantly with engine rotation. If the rotor jumps around the timing chain is skipping teeth. This may not happen all the time and you could still have jumped a tooth or two. In order to prevent further possible damage to the valves I would just remove the timing chain cover and physically inspect the timing chain.

I don't know how many miles are on the engine or if the timing chain has been replaced before, but if it has not there is a good chance that it is in very bad condition. General Motors used a nylon coating over the cam gear to reduce noise. After time the nylon teeth crack and fall into the oil pan, possibly pluging up the oil pick up screen. When the teeth fall off the chain becomes excessively loose and can cause a lot of problems.

 

eeeeeek... This doesn't look good... I will have to take it off on the spot, I can't move it in back behind the house. And who knows if there will be a bolt issue or not.. It's street cleaning again tomorrow and now it's raining... ou: .. Or I could AAA it and pay 350$ for a garage to take care of it.. For a car that doesn't even have a floor..

 

I just went and ordered a chain set and a timing cover gasket, should be here by four. The big question is, how do you get the crank bolt off? I read of some version where you locked a wrench shaft against the ground and bumped the engine to losen the bolt, but it seems a bit dramatic.. ?

 

If you have a breaker bar, use it, if not, use your half-inch ratchet and a 1 1/8" socket. Put it on the nut and lay thehandle of the ratchet on top of the frame on the DRIVER'S side. Then bump the key. It'll break it loose. The balancer should slide right off (these ain't chevys).

 

Sounds good, always welcome to find new ways to do things. I'm looking in the haynes manual, and it says:

"On 455 cid Buick engines, the oil pan must be removed in order to slide the sprocket off the crankshaft (see section 14)"

But in section 14 there's no metioning of that, is this something that is really necessary or not?

 

You won't have to remove the oil pan to remove the crankshaft sprocket. The pan angles down in the front.

 

Here's where we're at right now.. Not the best place to so this, but I didn't choose it, or I did, by just buying the car in the first place.

 

You can also put the ratchet against the ground. I had to use a puller to remove my balancer, you may have to do the same. Goodluck, it isn't hard. :TU: :grin:

 

One hour in, and we're entering the more delicate procedure of removing the bolts for the cover, wish me luck..! Oh and I couldn't open the hood for some reason, had to stick my leg up under the hood and push it a bit, good thing all the stuff was out..

 

After being back and forth to autozone a couple of times to get the right puller, we're now inside the cave. All bolts came out smoothly which felt real nice. I had a second timing cover which I popped the screws into so I know which goes where. Someone has been in there before and the cogs on the gears are made out of metal. Some five star mechanic left half a fuel pump on top of the cam gear. You can see the fuel pump shaft laying there and some other bits and pieces :error: .. I need some second opinions on how to proceed here..

 

Here's the chain, I don't know what slack really means under these circumstances, but it doesn't feel particurlarly tight. There has been some grinding wear on the cam gear from the old fuel pump sliding against it?