Can you guys look at some pics for me and help me settle something PLEASE

I sold this cam and lifters as used recently. It is an OLD Kenne Bell 118. I admit I didn't inspect quite it as fine as I could have but I know it worked well in my motor (I ran it very little) and in my friends motor and the lobes haven't lost lift which makes me believe it would work fine for quite some time to come. Anyway I got a pm that the gentleman inspected this used piece and isn't good enough for his fine motor. I asked him to send me pics with what he wasn't happy with and we'd go from there about me taking it back. Not sure what that means "was able to match lobe to lifter". I just hope they aren't mixed up now.

Him: Hi Todd, I had a chance to look at the cam and lifters today. I don't know if you really looked at it good but I would not put it in my engine. Most of the cam lobes are worn and very rough like sand paper, some of the lifter are very pitted. I was able to match lobe to lifter. Are you willing to take it back I'll pay shipping. Thank's

Me: That cam never saw any form of rust or corrosion so any pitting is porosity inherent to the cast iron in Bell cams. Have you ever really looked at a broken in cam? It ran fine in my motor and in my friends motor. None of the lobes are missing lift which is what they do when they are actually shot. I wish this site would have let me post pics to avoid these kind of mutual troubles. In the thread I offered pics and I guess in the future I'll push the subject of making people see them before I ship anything as it cost like over thirty bucks to ship it. I want to be fair so I'll tell you what, can you send me pics of what you are talking about to camaro_462@yahoo.com

In the email: Hi Todd, Here are some pictures they are hard to see. Some of the lifters are pitted and the 4th and 16th lobes. The lobes show wear they are very rough like maybe you had to much spring pressure. When you get it back you can take a good look at it and you will see what I am talking about. I would not put it in my engine. I'm 52 years old I was ASE Certified in the mid 80's, Now I am a AWS Certified welding inspector. I have been working on cars for over 30 years, If the cam was good I would use it. I will pay shipping. Thank's I have more pictures I have to send them in another email

Just want some opinions. I don't care about refunding the money I have no problem with that. I think disputing it with paypal was not called for like if this is a piece of trash. To me if you want perfect you buy new. What do you guys think? Did I sell crap? or would you run it? If nothing else I want to know for it's future usage. These are his pics he sent to me with things he circled.
Thanks everyone for your time.:beers2:

 

It is hard to see anything in the pictures. There may be something other than what he is telling you? I would think if he thought the cam was damaged and not usable he would want all his money back and not offer to pay the shipping.o No: I would refund and forget it.

Bob H.

 

Update:
ME: I never said I wouldn't work with you or take it back so opening a dispute with paypal right away was to me an unnecessary and low class act. Why didn't you just buy a new cam if perfect is what you expected?

Ok, so yes the paypal thing irritated me so lets move on and get this delt with. Did you mix up the lifters? You said "I was able to match lobe to lifter" What did you mean by that?

HIM:No I did not mix up the lifters, I was able to match the lifter to the lobe. Were you able to see anything in the pictures

ME:Yes there is some pitting where the crown of the lifter doesn't ride. You realize if the surface was completely hard and smooth even under a microscope it wouldn't hold onto oil and would wipe out right away? Also I still do not understand what you mean by "I was able to match the lifter to the lobe". I need that clarified.
I don't want to argue with you. I just want this done with in a way that is fair to all.

HIMI was able to match the lifter to the cam lobe that it rode on. When you get this back and take a good look at it, don't resell it as excellent condition because it is worn. I will be talking to Steve Long Racing Cams about a new C118. Just credit my paypal and I'll send it back to you

ME:Of course it has some wear, it's used! The term excellent condition is perhaps open to interpretation by the eye of the person looking at it but I said it is a USED cam from a company that has been gone for years.
You were able to match the lifter to the cam lobe it rode on? The box was labeled front of engine and left and right sides of motor. There was no matching that needed to be done. you cannot eyeball them and decide which lobe and lifter you think went together. They have to stay matched. So I am still confused to what you mean. This is pivotal as you may not feel it is usable I know I works fine and would want to be able to use it in the future if it were returned to me. I came out of a GOOD running engine when it went to you and it may not be usable now.

HIM: ALL THE LIFTERS ARE IN THE SAME ORDER AS THEY WERE WHEN I RECIEVED THEM, ARE YOU GOING TO REFUND PAYPAL OR NOT YES OR NO

I'll leave this up to the others on the board as an impartial jury. I absolutely do not want to be unfair or unrepresentative but I do not wish to receive an unusable item in place of a fully functional one I sent out. I would like to add that pics were offered in the thread I sold these in but were never asked for?

 

OK first of all the number one cam lobe is the left side, the number two lobe is the right side, the number three is the left side, the number four is the right do you know what I mean by matching the lobe to the lifter The lifters are in the same order as when I got them. You say you will refund me just do it and this will end. I told you that I would pay shipping which is more than fair for parts that I would not put in a new motor. You also said that it was in excellent condition that means like new, not worn. If you like I can dye check the cam and lifters and post pictures for everyone to see, would you like that. Are you sure you want to keep going with this out in the open for everyone to see this will hurt you more than me, next time you try to sell something people will question your judgement on condition.

 

I think you should give a refund, get the cam back and have a nice day. When selling online you have to expect this to occur occasionally. As the seller you are the one taking the risk. It's not a matter if you are right or not. There is not enough money on the table to make it an issue. Good luck.

 

Refund.

 

The actual contact point on the cam and lifter is quite small. For example, on the cam flank, the contact point is near the lobe edge and near the lifter edge. On the cam nose, it moves towards the lifter center and the middle of the lobe. The contact point has to do with velocity. Any place on the cam or lifter that is not in contact (which is a good bit of real estate) can be in whatever shape. As longer as the areas that are in actual contact are ok, you're good to go.

 

+1

 

I have nothing to hide from everyone on here, good or bad. I have bought many things from members here but this was the first thing I ever sold on here, I do not deny that. So since this was the first time I have sold an item on this site I felt my description of the item was accurate considering the age of the item and that it IS in fact used. I did offer pictures to anyone interested. I was not intentionally trying to hide anything. As Scott said above, only part of the lifter and lobe make contact and the areas you circled are not those areas.

You weren't happy and I never contested refunding your money. All I asked for was an explanation of what the issue was and what you meant by "I matched the lifters to the cam lobes" and it took this to get a clearer explanation from you of what that meant. They were labeled front on engine and left bank and right bank but whatever. You sent me one email then went straight to paypal and they froze my account and you never really gave me a chance to work with you. Most people would be a bit bothered by that, don't you think? So as for people on here wanting to deal with either you or I in the future, I have been on here a long time with hundreds of posts and you have a grand total of now 8. I put this in front of the good people on this board and I am following their recommendations (thanks for your replies everyone). I do feel it is fair that it be shipped back before I go and refund the money as I would have no recourse if you never bothered to send it. Send it with delivery confirmation and you then have proof of delivery and this post for paypal to contest if you feel it necessary. My intention was never to cheat anyone. After that we'll merrily go on our separate ways. Fair enough? I do want to thank you as you have taught me a valuable lesson in dealing with online buyers.

By the way, I have to ask, who buys a used cam for a "new" motor anyway?

Lets put this behind us.

Thanks again everyone for the replies.

Todd F Grant

 

Can't tell anything from the pictures.

I agree, buyer ships the cam back, when seller recieves it, he refunds the money via paypal within 24 hours.

JW

 

I'll dry check the cam and lifters this week and post pictures. As far as the cam the problem is on the edge of the lobes not in the center (Scott). We seem to be going down the wrong road IS THE CAM IN EXCELLENT CONDITION YES OR NO AS POSTED. IF YOU WERE HONEST ABOUT IN THE FIRST PLACE WE WOULD NOT BE HERE NOW. AS FAR AS SHIPPING I SENT YOU MONEY IN GOOD FAITH YOU REFUND ME IN GOOD FAITH AND I'LL SEND YOUR CAM BACK TO YOU. YOU HAVE MY WORD. AL

 

Am I reading it right. He wants him to refund him the money THEN he will send the cam back.


I think he should also refund him his money that he is due and be done with this.

 

Did you even read my last post? You keep playing on the word excellent. I felt it was for a probably 20+ year old used part. Excellent or fair or whatever condition is subjective. I felt it was as it is fully functional. Why don't you get pics under a microscope and whine that it isn't on par with a brand new cam. IT"S NOT GOING TO BE, IT"S USED REMEMBER. I am sick of wasting time on you. The day I sent them I went into work late because I battled lines in the post office right before Christmas because I didn't want to hold up it getting to you. Plus I volunteered to eat 20 something dollars of the shipping for you when I sent it. I wasted hours yesterday and now this morning before work here you are again. I am trying to be fair. Like Bob said, if you thought it was so unusable, why did you start out offering to pay the shipping? If someone sent me crap I'd be so hot I wouldn't be paying shipping. One more thing that strikes me as odd.

I will refund your money. Never once FROM THE BEGINNING did I contest that. You dare call me a liar on a technicality play on a word. I knew it would work well. It did in my .030 over Total Sealed .010/.010 Stage One motor. What is your "new" motor that you would buy a used cam for? A hand hone job with new rings maybe? I am honoring my word, I am following what the respected figures on here suggest I do. That includes not refunding a damn thing until it is shipped back. Why should I trust your word? My mistake was in wording. You have been and are being shady in everything you are doing. You can waste time getting whatever pics you like but without shipping them back to me we WILL be battling round and round in paypal.

 

I was trying to help you out with shipping by offering to pay to ship it back. Sorry that I confused you. I was trying to be nice well now Its time not be be nice I want my $185 plus shipping if you want your cam back if no I'll keep it. I will be calling paypal to tell them that I will not be paying them $185, that should make them happy. You said yourself that you did not look at it before you sent it so you have no idea what condition it was in. I have a feeling that you knew It was no good thats why you don't want it back.

 

I'll tell you what Rob, If Todd is willing I will let a third party look at it and if they say they would put it in there motor I will eat it. If not Tood refunds $185 plus shipping. Is that man enough. I live in RI AL

 

Al,

Let's do it this way.

Send the cam/lifters to me at the shop.

Once I recieve it, I will let Todd know I have it, so he can refund your money.

I will then inspect the cam, and take some good pictures. Throw them on the board here and use it for a learning tool for everyone..If it's something useable then I will re-sell it for Todd, if not, I will return it to him.

Way too much drama here for a simple transaction.

JW

 

Rob, I am sure that if a third party looks at it they will say that, it is no good, I'm so sure that I'm willing to take that chance. Is Todd that sure ??? Yes this has gone way to far all Todd had to do was take it back in the first place, and everyone would be happy. AL