words An old Locomotive engineer told me once, "Son , keep Your words soft,sweet, and tender. That way when You have to eat them it aint near so bad." :laugh:
Couldn't pass up this one: "6) SKYLARK (Small Block Engine/LOW Horsepower, VERY FEW Options! BASE MODEL!)" My Skylark has a 260 hp V8, AC/PS/PB/PW/AM-FM/flasher/rallyes/headrests, etc., etc., all factory correct. I think that even the Specials could be ordered with several options.
Scott is a Good Guy, in his defense. He doesn't ever mean to offend But, also, Scott, you do know by now how people might interpret how you post When you reply to a post, right above the message field, above where it says 'guided mode' (anyone know what that means?) there are options for boldface type , italics , and underscores (also called understrikes or underlines). They only take a second to use; you type to where you want to use the special style type, then click the "B" "I" or "U", then you just type the word in the provided field. Personally, I understand why you capitalise, and while I disagree with your interpretation of what models these are, I understand your standpoint. However, in the interest of keeping you from being misunderstood, could I suggest you try using the boldface, italics, and underscores once or twice? Just try it, is all I'm saying :TU:
http://www.greatoldcars.com/pontiac_gto_photo_archive.htm if you read the part under '1964' you'll get some background on how the GTO was an option for a Le Mans/Tempest on that year :beer This one is good too: http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/pontiac-gto/pontiac-gto-history.shtml This one talks about the Corporate bans on various engines It's always interesting to me that folks forget, even Poncho guys sometimes, that the GTO started as a simple ~$300 option on another car and that the GTO wasn't it's own model until 1966 :TU:
Pardon me for saying this: What a waste of time and effort. Annie asked a question, ended up with pages of responses, which admittedly I didn't take the time to read all of and in the end, if a person refers to your car as a Skylark GS, so what? Now we have board members angry at each other, for what? To the purist it's very important that no one confuse your GS with a Skylark. to the person paying a compliment, so what?
I don't think anyone's really mad at anyone. I think a little steam got blown off and that is the long and short of it But, if you actually go back and read the thread, you might learn things like how to decode a 1970 Buick 44000 series VIN :TU: Knoweldge is power and all that
what years were the "Special"s made in the 60's ?? I really only know 68/69 well - and for those years the Special was the true Buick A-body Base Model What other years is this true ??
Here's what I think. My model year 1971 dealer brouchure has all the models that year including a Skylark and a GS as seperate cars. It makes no mention of the word Skylark option package. Since I am almost uzzled: positive there was a GS Riviera that year, why didnt it show that model in the brochure? I think they are two seperate cars.
This is an interesting thread! I'll try to summarize! I might be wrong somewhere, don't blame me!... It's hard not to be confused with this subject! The Gran Sport package was an option on the 1965,1995,1996,1997 Skylark, the 1966 Wildcat, the 1965,1966,1967,1968,1969,1970,1971,1972,1973,1974,1975 Riviera and on the 1973,1974,1986 Century. On all the previous models (except the 73-74-86 Century??), the cars had both the model name badges and the "GS" or "Gran Sport" badges somewhere on them. The 1966 Skylark Gran Sport was a separate Skylark model. Some sources (like the sales litterature and chassis manual) says that the 1967 GS 400 are simply GS 400 (not Skylarks) while others (The Buick A Complete History 5th edition) say that they were part of the Skylark line... The 1967 GS 340 was technically an option package on the Special 2 door hardtop but the car was not called a Special! The 1967-1968-1969 California GS (or Colorado GS or any pillared coupe with GS badges and a smaller than 400 engine) was an option pakage on the Special two door sedan. But again, they were not called Specials... The 1968,1969,1970 GS 350 was a model of it's own, the GS 400-455 from the same years were not called Skylarks... In 1971-72, the GS 350 and GS 455 were the same model but they were not called Skylarks. In 1990-1991-1992-1993-1994, the Skylark GS was a separate Skylark model. Regal Gran Sport and GS models were also available in two and 4 door versions between 1988 and 2004. I think that some years, it was an option package, some years a separate model on the Regal too. Presently, the only Buick GS models are made in China! One of them is called the Buick Royaum GS (!) but it looks like a rebadged Holden! (see picture!) :laugh: :error:
Need Input, Need Input Gary, I guess I wasn't clear in my first post - if a stranger walks by and says "nice Skylark" - no problem, thanks and it's all good. The people who have really been asking me the questions "what's the difference", "aren't they the same" - are people I know, who really would like to understand, are Ferd or Chebby types, etc. I asked because I had doubt in the information I had been sharing. I do not like to spread mis-information, especially if it's due to lack of knowledge on my part. That's why I asked. And, WOW :eek2: have I learned a lot! Thanks ALL!! :grin:
Gary- If you page back, you'll see a chart I reproduced that is straight from the Buick Chassis Manual A Sportwagon has it's own VIN, and there were two Sportwagon models in 1970 So At least in 1970, while you could say the Sportwagon was 'based' on the Skylark family of cars, it had it's own VIN (actually a pair of them), and is, by definition, not a Skylark Similarly, based on VIN (which is how to determine Model) in 1970 at least, a Skylark, a Skylark 350, and a Skylark Custo, were, to Buick Motor Division, all seperate models- they all were identified by VIN distinct model code So- you couldn't 'build' a Sportwagon out of a base model L6 Skylark, just like you couldn't 'build' a convertible out of a Skylark 350= if you wanted the convertible, you had to get the Skylark Custom convertible- and since the Skylark Custom Convertible has it's own model number as well, if you wanted a Skylark Custom Convertible, the car you got wasn't just a Skylark Custom- the VIN decoded as a Skylark Custom Convertible- to as an option on the Skylark Custom, although I bet the dealers never made the distinction. But the VIN for a Skylark Custom and a Skylark Custom Convertible are not the same- they have different model codes. Every car with a seperate model code was it's own model. That's just the way they did it, much different than the way it's done now Many Buick aficianados don't seem to realise that a Skylark 350 even existed in 1970, and only slightly more seem to now that there was a Skylark Custom- kinda like the GTO option thing :TU: here is that chart again: This is directly from the 1970 Buick All Series Chassis manual, page 00-2: Division I Specifications and Adjustments 00-1 1970 MODEL CHART series...........................body style...............................designation Skylark........................2-door Coupe Thin Pillar...............43327 ..................................4 door Sedan Thin Pillar...............43369 Sportwagon..................4 door 2 seat wagon...................43435 ..................................4 door 2 seat wagon...................43436 Skylark 350...................2 door Coupe Hardtop.................43537 ..................................4 door Sedan Thin Pillar...............43569 GS...............................2 door Coupe Hardtop.................43437 Skylark Custom...............2 door Coupe Hardtop.................44437 ...................................2 door Convertible......................44467 ...................................4 door Hardtop...........................44439 ...................................4 door Sedan Thin Pillar................44469 GS455...........................2 door Coupe Hardtop..................44637 ....................................2 door Convertible......................44667 he first "4" means Buick in the VIN in 1970, the next two digits are the model, the next two are the body style. My car is a "4 44 67 0 H XXXXXXX" the "0" is model year, "H" means Flint, Mi, and the xxxxx are the serial numbers A GS455 Convertible from '70 is a "4 46 67 0 (plant code) XXXXXXXX" The "44" means Skylark Custom in my case, the "46" is the much sought after GS455 a 44467 is a Skylark Custom convertible, therefore, and a 44667 is a GS455 Convertible. note how both convertibles have the "67", denoting convertible body style. The previous two numbers, "44" and "46" are different- because that is the model number This stuff always fascinates me- how the cars got identified, what cods mean what plants did certain things, why this car got one thing and another car got another
I just dont get it. How can something so cut and dry be so difficult. Starting in 68 and ending in 71, the GS was its own model unto itself. It was NOT an option on the Skylark. There were seperate order forms for a GS 455. Nowhere on Annie's GS does it say "Skylark". Nor does it say Skylark on my 71 GS 455 either. In 72, the GS became an option once again. That was across the board with all the A body musclecars. For example...My 72 442 W-30 was a Cutlass 442 in that year. It plainly said Cutlass on the glove box whereas in earlier years in said "442".
Scott, Apology accepted, but not necessary. Got to thinking (always gets me in trouble!) about my response and it was an overreaction on my part, something struck a nerve, not your fault. My apologies to YOU! New Rule: Write reply to supposedly offensive post. Save but do not submit. Have a stiff drink. Go for a drive. Get some (insert possibly offensive term here). Wait a day. ReRead reply and supposedly offensive post. Do this: ou: Delete reply and write another blank check for new Lucille parts!! AMEN!!
Jason- here's my take on it: This was a long time ago. Most folks don't have all the reference at their fingertips, and rely on their recollection So, it makes perfect sense that a GS was a bynch of optiojns on a Skylark for any given yeras. I mean, who here can actually recall filling out the forms to purchase a new GS in the fall of 1969? I wasn't born until '71 :laugh: So the memory of how things was done, and why, is in error. Also, it wasn't common knowledge about the hows and whys of GM's thinking. As a great example, I offer the small side discussion on the '64 GTO that went on in this thread. It happens all the time- folks swear up and down that the GTO was never an options package. I have, gently, explained to guys that have 1964 GTOs about the Corporate Ban that spawned their car, and they never heard of it. Now, that's the most popular Musclecar as far as I can tell, the GTO. If many GTO guys don't know the 'backstory' about options or seperate models, it stands to reason that a less popular musclecar's fans might be hazy on what was it's own model and what was an option, and when The VIN is always a pretty good place to start identification :TU:
Aw heck, arguements are what make forums so interesting! :laugh: It just ain't no fun without a little arguing here and there. :beer
How about the 67? As far as I know, there is no Skylark badge anywhere on the 67. And the 1967 chassis manual doesn't list it as a Skylark model. I think it's a bit more confusing than it looks... And don't forget the California GS models... See the list of 67 Buick models in the dealer's brochure, the GS 400 are 3 of the 27 Buick models that year and they are not listed as Skylarks...
