(For the record, I wrote this once, hit Preview Post, and freakin IE "experienced an error and had to close" so this is the shortened version. I only have that problem with this Board???? grrrrrrr) Mathematical tenet: All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. Does it follow that: All Gran Sports are Skylarks, but not all Skylarks are Gran Sports? I thought I understood the answer to this question, but lately I've lost confidence in my own knowledge. Albeit, my (limited) knowledge is focused on the 70-72 GS, but I'm trying to learn about them all.... Non-Buick people will ask me about "Skylark" I have always corrected them, saying sorry Lucille's a Gran Sport, not a Skylark. Then I get, "well, a GS is just an optioned Skylark right? They're the same aren't they?" I answer with "No, in 1970 the Gran Sport was a separate base model from the Skylark. You ordered a Gran Sport OR a Skylark, you couldn't order a Skylark and option it up into being a Gran Sport." Inevitably, they are still confused, but I always thought I had a handle on it. Now, I keep seeing references to "1970 Skylark GS" and such (Hemmings Muscle Machines). So I'm thinking, great! went and shot off my mouth again and didn't really know what I was talking about! ou: So, I pulled out Lucille's Sloan documents and sure enough, there is no mention of "Skylark" on any of the paperwork - simply "1970 Buick GS and GS 455" o No: o No: So, when is a Gran Sport a Skylark, and when is it not? What is the best way to answer these inquiries, what's the 'correct' answer? Feel free to answer "see this link" or "read this book" if it's too long to answer here. (I copied & pasted this time before hitting Preview Post!)
Think of the '80's Buicks....Regal/Turbo Regal/T-Type/GN/GNX situation. From what I understand from having had a T-Type was as follows: 1) Regal (with badge options). 2) Turbo Regal. 3) T-Type (that some call a Regal T-Type which I don't believe is correct). 4) The GN and the GNX but no way was there an optioned "Regal GN or GNX". Does all that make sense? So basically, I believe there was the Skylark (basic or Custom). The GS and the GSX. The GS and the GSX are the same car as the Skylark, with extra goodies, but had a separate nameplate of GS and GSX. So basically the same platform, but totally different names. They just add Skylark to help uneducated people understand what a GS is!!! :spank:
Copy is a good idea before posting......that's happened to me soooooo many times. Hemmings shoots their mouth off without knowing what they're talking about....wouldn't be the first time. To the best of my knowlege, GS was a Skylark option starting in '65 but from then on GS was a model. I also think the '64 GTO started that way too, LeMans with the GTO option. If I'm wrong, maybe I stand a chance getting hired as a writer for hemmings :laugh:
Rivieras? Hemmings: I think that in at least the past 2 issues of HMM, they referenced a photo of a 70-72 Gran Sport as a "197x Skylark GS". The issue that just arrived (April) with all the auctions results really got me thinking. I know that they're not the experts (that's why I asked here! :TU: ), but neither am I.....so it helped fuel my doubt. I'm also curious about the GS option in the Rivs? When did that start/stop?
Geez, Dee!! Try not to ADD to my confusion! I love those 80s Buicks, but I really know NOTHING about them....(yet)....let me get through the early 70s first!! :laugh: Bwahaha! If only it worked that way, but it seems to have confused many of them....of course, what do you expect of people that Fix Or Repair Daily or think the world revolves around a Bowtie? (For Dee only: maybe it's because they're men??? QUICK! Duck and Run, that will definitely put me in the hotseat!)
As far as Hemmings goes, because there was also a Riviera Gran Sport, I think in some instances people may be using the term "Skylark" simply to differentiate between the "Skylark" GS and the "Riviera" GS. Just a thought o No:
To the best of my knowlege, the first GS Riv was '65, as an option, and all were an option up until '73 when the RivGS was a particular model........I also think that '73 was the last year for the Riv GS. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. :bglasses:
A GS455 doesn't have the same code as a Skylark Custom...if you look, for instance, at the 1970 Buick Catalog, it lists nearly 40 cars- when you decode them, it's quite clear that a GS455, for example, was it's own model, and not an option on the Skylark for that year A '64 GTO may be a gray area, as it was an options package on a base mode; but for 1970 Buicks, the GS Sport Coupe was it's own model, The GS455 was it's own model (No Gran Sports technically exist for the 1970 model, the name was shortened to "GS"), the Skylark was it's own model, the Skylark Custom was it's own model, the Sportwagon was it's own model if the VIN reads "44667" it is not the same car as "44467"
I've never heard a GTO called a Lemans GTO, or a 442 called a Cutlass 442, but I guess I give people a little lea-way on my Buick. GS (non-Riv) was certainly a separate model after 1966. I think Skylark GS is just a standard nomenclature carried over from Chevy folks used to saying "Chevelle SS", which is a necessary discriminator for Chevy folks because they also have "Impala SS", "Monte Carlo SS", Nova SS", "Camaro SS". And I think probably technically it should be "Malibu SS", right? I don't take offense at people calling my car a Skylark GS, but if they do just say "Skylark", I will correct them saying it's a GS.
Most non-Buick (and even some Buick people) don't even know there is a Riviera GS. :Brow: I liked it better, back years ago, before anyone really realized there was a Buick GS anything. Everyone was just into their Chevelles and GTOs! :beer It meant more GS stuff for me!!! :laugh:
On the line, when they built them, did they start with a GS and makes some Skylarks, or start with a Skylark and make some GSs?
I disagree. Is VIN 446370H100001 a Skylark or a Gran Sport model? Model 46 denotes a Gran Sport, not a Skylark
Granted, this is all just semantics, but I beg to differ. The 66-72 high-performance Buick A-body is a separate model. See the above post. Series 4600 is a Gran Sport and/or GS, and not a Skylark. It has it's own MODEL number. In 65 "Gran Sport" was an option on a Skylark. No different model number. In 66 the "Skylark GS" was a model to itself, with a distinct MODEL number (446XX). In 67-69 "GS 400" was a MODEL (446XX). In 70 "GS 455" was a MODEL, with Stage 1 and GSX as options (446XX). In 71 and 72 "GS" was a model, with 455, Stage 1 and GSX as option packages available only on the GS model (434XX). I'm not sure on 67 small block cars, but in 68/9 "GS 350" was a model (43437). In 70 "GS" was a model (350 equiped, series 43437)
And, no, not all Gran Sports are Skylarks (Rivs and Wildcats, as described above) And, yes, Hemmings is catering to the ignorant when they talk about a 67-72 "Skylark GS"
I'm sure that there were 74 Riv GSs, and I "think" 75 also. I'm pretty sure there were none in 76 (superceded by the "SR"?).
I also disagree! That statement is false. If there is a different vin number then the car is clearly not the same model! If you look at any factory manual, book, etc.. Its breaks everything down by the model. Marco's 70 is a good example also the same situation happens in 71 and 72 For example: This is taken from my 72 showroom book Model 4467 Skylark Custom Conv Model 3467 GS Conv Skylark 2Dr Model 3327 Skylark Custom 4dr Hrdtop Model 4439 Skylark 4dr Model 3369 Skylark Custom 4dr Model 4469 GS Sport Coupe Model 3437 Skylark Sport Couple Model 3337 Skylark Custom Sport Coupe Model 4437 Dustin
