I wonder where the safe zone is for the stroke though, too much and you can put a bind with rod/stroke ratios on 455's I heard. On them a 4.4 stroke is pretty much the limit. G
Its the rod to cam clearance is what limits the stroke(and pan rail clearance),Buicks have a short cam to crank center to center distance,compared to other brands that get stroker cranks. If big block Buicks had larger cam journals so the camshaft base circle could be larger,then 4.400" would be to much without raising the cam,or useing a reduced base circle cam. A sbb 350 stroke limit is unknown at this time,because the factory crank can only be stroked .150" to 4.00",and I'm not sure that anyone has tried this yet. A sbc for example needs to use a sbc small base circle cam when it has a 3.75" stroke with a cam that has more than around a .350" lobe lift,and 5.7" rods.That is one of the reasons the General used 5.565" rods in the sbc 400,to make the shorter rods swing futher away from the cam when its running.(the shorter the rod,the more it swings when it goes up and down and round and round) Even though the sbc crank and cam is futher away from each other,it has a larger base circle than a sbb. Buick kind of got lazy when they went from the 215 to the 300,and they never raised the cam centerline for the new at that time block,and left it the same all the way to the 350. But,seeing how the sbb's base circle is smaller probably than a sbc small base circle cam,and Buick rods have a 2.00" rod journals(a little naworrower than a 2.1" sbc rod),longer rods can be used for the 3.850" stroke without reducing the base circle.Buick did have to design clearance into the rods for them to clear the cam though.That being said,Jim Blackwood's blower 340 engine has 7.00" after market rods,that needed to be clearanced because I think he said there was cam interference,so a longer rod with a stroker Buick might not work with the standard base circle cam.(a Buick reduced base circle cam would be horrible)Thats where the new aluminum 4.00" bore raised cam block would come into play.:Browhint,hint,heads first though) I'm sure all kinds of fancy stuff will be done with a sbb 350,once some good flowing aluminum heads are available to play with.:Brow:
The 350 is proven to be reliable without any girdle... This is a 369 Cube Buick 350 that made 630HP on a few PSI and has since had the boost raised way up. Estimated HP is around 730 HP for a street car. <o></o> <o> </o> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zktYYQhCtqU<o></o> <o> </o> I feel no need to prove anything with the 350 and turbochargers, the fact is the 350 makes good power under boost. Dyno testing showed an almost double in HP from a BONE stock 350 with smogger heads, 8:1 compression, stock cam, 100,000 miles, no mods or rebuild, and using 7 PSI and no intercooler. <o></o> <o> </o> It is easy to make 350 HP with a mild street 350 and it is easy to double the HP with turbochargers, these are facts...<o></o> <o> </o> Turbos are the best power adder out there, look in the "high tech. section" on here and see a bone stock LS GM engine make 1000 HP with turbos and no internal engine mods...<o></o> <o> </o> If I was building an all out engine I would use a LS GM engine, but for a mild street build and keeping it "all Buick" without any bandaids or girdles the 350 can easily meet my goals...I am aiming for 20 MPG highway as well and see no reaon I can not get it. I could care less if anyone else believes in the 350... These days my 700 HP street engine goals are VERY mild... Guys are making 2000 HP with the LS engines, fully street friendly...<o></o>
http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?206261-Its-In-!!!!&highlight=mhgs No concrete numbers but I am sure this is a 12 second motor. No aluminum heads, just a max effort build. Roller rockers, fully ported heads and a Poston intake modified to single plane among other things. Unfortunately mhgs does not have a track near by but I would at least like to see some dyno numbers. Why aren't more people doing this? My excuse is I don't have a job but I know there are plenty of guys ready to invest in a set of aluminum heads, so why not roller rockers or fully ported iron heads. Why not a max effort motor that spins to 6500 or 7000 rpm utilizing a set of TA forged rods? I am certain most of the reason we don't see this is that for less money and effort guys are taking BBBs , bumping up the compression, throwing in a hot cam and making almost 500hp. With 105 less cubes its hard to beat that. So when we all ask where is the proof, where are the results, we don't have results because they guys that would be interested in a max effort motor would just put that effort into a motor that has the full backing of the aftermarket. I know that's where I was at, I wanted to build a big block so I could have a fast car and then build a small block later. But then I realized its so much fun telling people I run 14.1 with a stock motor with an original untouched ignition and fuel system. I think it would be more fun to say I run 13.1 with an all iron mild ported motor. If I come into some money this summer I will be sure to throw up some numbers.What is going to get people in the doors and buying parts for these 350s are threads showing guys going out and running 12s. Who wants to spend 3-4 grand on heads and run high 13s? I know I don't. I know I'm oversimplifying this but I'm sure you all see where I am going. So at least if we can get a comprehensive database of who runs what times with what combination we can make this information more widely available to the community. I know Sean is right on target with his upcoming SBB book but what I mean is a basic run down of different combinations and the results. We need to start backing up our theories with some irrefutable proof.
I do not care if I am the only one running a 350, does not matter to me.. Build whatever you all want to everyone... Heck the best bang for the buck is a LS GM engine, toss that in it is a great design... I am just trying to help people who "want" to use a Buick 350 and I feel no need to prove anything anymore. Here are some basic combos: A 13 second stock low comp 350 engine with a mild cam and headers as the only mods: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?187641-Getting-there&highlight=artie And a 12 second combo built by a 17 year old as his first engine build: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?197890-Sacramento-raceway-Street-legal-drag Mid 12s with bone stock engine and mild cam, no rebuild, and low compression, with a little nitrous: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?174677-New-Cam-Lunati-33204&highlight= None of the above threads even had ANY head porting so just imagine the potential with some work done to the heads.... Then imagine what a set of bolt on Alum heads could do. This could take a stock engine from 300 HP to 500+ HP with a cam, heads, and intake swap... Or if you really want to and not wanting to wait just have a set of iron heads ported, oversized valves and have some fun!
Mike from TA,I don't know if you you had time to catch up on reading this thread,but when you do,it'll be like the movie "Field of Dreams" but instead of "if you build it they will come" it will be;if you build it they(we) will buy!!(the sooner the better!) It would really help to get deposit $$ if you responded to this thread to kow how serious you are on making aluminum sbb cylinder heads,and let your wife know that she was right! You have a pass though,because we have all been there. The important thing is that you keep everyone informed on what YOU,Mike from TA is going to do,we are all ears let us know?? Unless,you want to deal with a crap load of one on one phone calls,you can just inform people here,its your choice,but still you need to let people here know how you want to proceed,seeing how it was YOU that opened this can of worms.Public relations goes A LONG WAY(and here you have basically FREE advertising) ,companies that take care of customers,those customers will take care of that company.(let us know):TU:
Not bad for a mouth breathing knuckledragger, eh Gary? Imagine that, I can even hold a job long enough to buy the parts. Let me also say, (or grunt, as you woud have it) that I have run a number of 350's and they blow up just as easy as a 455. I have a pile of parts to prove it. Don't get me wrong, scraped knuckles and all, the sbb is a way better engine than the sbc, bu to me, the purpose of putting a bunch of money into an engine is to go faster, and the same money spent on a bbb nets better results.
Good to see you can make constructive posts. My temper has cooled, and I've moved on. No hard feelings. Sorry for losing my cool. G
Good info. I think what he's talking about here though is showing that there are enough people interested in this project to make it worth going ahead with as soon as he can (the heads that is). Lots of people see the SBB guys just talking and no action, well when there's no parts or when they're waiting on parts, how much action can they expect? Not to mention that if someone's coming here to make educated decisions based on documented data and find very little on a 350, and see their money would be better spent elsewhere, why bother with the 350? I dunno. I'm fully loaded with plenty of thermodynamically charged compressed atmosphere myself, I'm not ashamed to say. Ideas turn into action though. G
For about the cost of a pair of aluminum heads.. I went from 9.08 at 76 to 7.67 at 92.1.. So, from about 260 HP to about 480 all calculated from Wallace racing..
OK, granted this should be a new topic, but this thread is getting good attention. Out of curiosity, has anyone who is reading this done serious material removal while porting the TA 350 dual plane aluminum intake? I first worked with it in the early '90's, and it was plenty beefy. Devon
Yeah there was heavy porting done to the TA intake on the the 500 HP NA BUick 350. The engine still liked the single plane better, but this was a high RPM engine, with large cam, large headers, large cam etc.. For a more street type build the TA intake might have been better than the singleplane... With good flowing alum heads I am sure the TA intake would be more than fine for street/strip use... For a max effort build the single plane would be better however there are not that many people looking for a max effort 350...
Good input. There has been lots of damnation about TA's small block intake over the years. There is a lot of potential there, not just in weight savings. By design there is a lot of material that can be removed depending on the application of the user. Is anyone else using a TA small block intake with porting? I have a feeling that people have already been running them but have not considered its potential. Devon
I think a major factor here is that the 350 has been challenged with lack of head flow even with porting and that makes it love a huge carb and or single plane intake. Fact is that more efficient heads would reduce the need to use such large carbs and single plane intakes just to make decent power. This idea has been proven with various brands of engines after aftermarket heads were introduced... This is why there are SBC 350 engines with nice AFR heads, dual planes, 650 CFM carbs making 550+ HP... back in the day it took a 850 CFM carb on a SBC with the poorly flowing heads and intake they had back then... Increased head efficiency, decreased demand for oversized induction. The dual plane TA intake alone has not been a big boost for performance on a 350 thus far but if the heads were alum and flowing better then it would be the way to go for 90% of the 350 builds. <o></o>
Good input. Is anyone else using a TA small block intake with porting? I have a feeling that people have already been running them but have not considered its potential. Devon
For me and what I want out of my car, it's Aluminum heads all the way. I would buy the heads and the dual plane intake at same time. I do think they would sell many more sets then they think, not everyone needs the single plane intake, but I think many more of us need the heads. Cheers Curtis
