I can call and make a $2500 deposit in the morning if you can start working on the 350 heads. Ken Betts is working on 350 heads, maybe you can work together? I will also make a $400 deposit on a single plane intake. There is a lot of interest however people get discouraged by things not happening over the years. There are lists of people wanting alum heads and intake dating back 10 years ago. For street/strip cars many people will want a dual plane intake like the "Stage 1" that you offer. I feel that Alum heads are what are needed most and those of us crazy enough to do all out builds are also willing to have a custom intake built to match. I see no resaon why we could not have 500 HP street/strip 350s with 355 cubes, alum heads, roller cam, and Stage 1 dual plane intakes... This is what the 350 needs, bolt on heads... Not everyone is willing to pay $2000 on head porting but buying a set of ready to bolt on heads is a lot easier for people to justify... Yes the 350 likes a single plane intake however for bolt on performance the single plane is not the answer especially for street cars in my opinion due to the fact that the heads need porting to make power. With the Twin Turbos attached my 350 is about 455 pounds, going to alum heads would give me a potent 400 pound beast of a street engine!
Thats great news Mike,and I gonna have to agree agree with Sean,and Sherri on this one though,heads first. Like Sean said,if you do the single plane intake first,ported heads would be needed to take advantage of it,and if people spend all that cash on porting,why spend even more $$ on aluminum heads,when the ported iron heads are working great with the single plane intake? If you could do both at the same time,I'm sure the people that are buying heads would want to buy one of your intakes,duel,or single aluminum with the heads. Iron block,with al. heads with a iron intake sounds like a vacuum leak waiting to happen.(a different expansion rate sandwiched):Smarty: Or if TA can't swing both,I'm sure the duel plane aluminun sales would rise because of aluminum heads sales,and when the single came out,people with the heads might want to try it.Downside would be a lot of used TA duel plane intakes would be for sale after the single came out if people like it better with the heads.(but thats OK because you'll be selling single plane intakes,plus some people would hold on to the intake they aren't using):TU:
I concur with Sean and Derek. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at just how many people jump over to the 350 once these parts become available. There were a lot of people who gave up on the 350 and went to the big blocks because of the support they have, and those same people will probably move back to the 350 once a single plane intake and aluminum heads are on the market. It is a huge investment, and money's tight right now for everyone true, but I believe that this will be a very profitable endeavor even if TA has to front most of the money on this project. There's a LOT of Buick 350 lovers out there, and the list is growing with the popularity of forced induction and realization of the 350's strong block. You know it's a good engine when you can get the small block chevy lovers to raise some eyebrows over it. Anyway you certainly don't need me to preach and praise the Buick 350. We all know how good it is! :Brow: Thumbs up! :TU: G I'd also like to add that from a marketing standpoint, the heads should come first. Two reasons: 1) The TA Stage 1 intake is already available and will sell more as a result of the better flowing heads, which is why people tend to use the cast iron one instead of yours--because its full potential can't be realized until it sits on top of good flowing heads. 2) If someone wants better flowing heads they have one option right now: to spend 2 grand or so to have them fully ported. They would MUCH rather spend this money and add another 500 or so to get aluminum, which will flow better and be lighter, be able to run higher compression, etc. and would be a much better investment (on the consumer's part) dollar per hp. You start telling people that Buick 350 aluminum heads are in production, and they will hold off spending any money on the cast iron ones, I guarantee it--once they know for certain that they are on the way. So heads first and I see a win/win here. You sell more intakes when people buy the heads. Like Derek said, if the intake comes first, it'll need the heads for its full potential to be realized. I just looks backwards to me to bring out the intake first (my humble 2c). Now this is from the outside looking in. I don't know how things are going for TA Performance, and I'm sure you have good reasons for wanting to do the intake first, but if you're in these forums already you might as well soak in some valuable input from everyone here (I know I have!).
the most bang for the buck would be a single plane intake on a stock or built engine. the dual plane does nothing for the 350 performance. heads can come later. this is based on experience, not chatter.
Both will come soon enough, Mike has already come out and said things have been underway for a while now. I am interested in both, but if I had a choice I would be interested in the intake before the heads. Many SBB guys already have well ported heads and just need a good intake to really make their combination shine. We all know stock heads can be ported to produce some decent flow numbers. Having aluminum heads is not so much a necessity as much as it is something that will allow more people who haven't already done so to build powerful 350's. Instead of spending $2000 or more on professionally ported heads that money can be used towards heads that already flow well, most likely have better chamber design and can tolerate higher CR. How many 455 guys go straight to aluminum heads? Not all of them that is for sure. But think about how many BBB guys go to an aluminum single plane when they build a hot street strip motor? Almost all of them who aren't concerned about a factory appearing engine. Getting these intakes out there will give TA some cash to reinvest into marketing and finishing up the heads. I am excited to see someone build a forged bottom end and see just how fast we can spin this motor and make some power without having to worry about a stock intake bottlenecking things. 450hp 350 that spins to 7k and you can still drive it on the street? Its not too far away....
In my opinion, the single plane intake would be the logical predecessor to the heads but immediate production of heads within 6 months would make sense from a business standpoint. The generation of revenue to fund the heads is crucial to getting them into production. The dual plane leaves so much room for improvement, the single would be a fast track to the production line by just removing the divider of the dual plane. We would gladly buy it and slap it on in a heartbeat. For every set of fully ported iron heads out there in the community the intake will be bought because we'd rather feel the immediate power increase and the silver lining will be we know for sure we'll use it when the aluminum heads come out. Not to mention the fully ported iron heads and a TA Stage 1 intake will make great back ups or sell them to fund a portion of the aluminum head purchase. Creating a broader commercial climate for the Buick 350 parts. I don't know about y'all but when it comes to my car. I'll scrap aluminum cans, save my pennies, go without dessert, smoke less cigs or drink less beer to get the dough to buy my parts. The intake production will be the catalyst for the heads and suddenly a spike in demand for any Buick 350 block and crank. Most all will find any block manufactured any year because we now have the ability to build our own with aftermarket parts. Excluding of course the guys that prefer to keep the numbers matching. Most will opt to leave what we have in the car alone until we build a different engine. Then yank a really good engine and replace it with a ground thumpin power plant. Now what do we do with the engine we pulled? We sell the parts! Obsolete or not they will sell especially the low end parts. Thus completing the supply and demand cycle. Now we have a new generational cycle and so on and so forth. It's in our nature to use the best available parts to get our little buddy to perform so we can chase that exhilarating feeling of power. Human nature dictates supply and demand. I think I can speak for most when I say, "Every man needs a canvas to be creative". Whether it's sculpting, gardening or building motors. It's what we do to fill in the empty cracks of our lives. We love it or we wouldn't be doing what we do with these mechanical wives of ours. I love thinking about it and talking about it and finally physically doing it. There is no substitute for the moment of 1st combustion of a newly built motor. So, regardless of intake or heads first. We'll do it and we'll love it no matter what anyone says about the work and the time and the money we'll do it no matter what... because we can! Then before we know it. Out pops an aluminum block and stroker kits and we're off to the races once again. Hoping all the while the Buick 350 get a chance to assume it's place next to it's big bro in engine lore. Where we all knew it should've been all along. Thank you for reading my ramblings!
Nice rambling,next time can you put some spaces in once in a while so its easier on the eyes to read?puzzled:,not puzzled,squntinting(LOL)I have older eyes,spaces would help,thanks,good post though:TU And as for the intake,its not as easy as removing the center divider,the duel plane has 4 runners that are lower than the other 4. A single plane intake,the runners are all on one"plane",meaning that the bottom of the intake isn't stepped down on one side like a "duel" plane is,the runners all share the same bottom and branchs out directly to the intake ports on the head by the most direct routing that can be cast,and usually taller than a duel. That being said,to make a single plane intake from a pattern,the inner pattern and top,and bottom outer pattern needs to be remade to pull it off. Of coarse an intake there would be less costs involved with the pattern and machining than the heads would be,because of the exsiting pattern has all the flange and cooling dimensions needed to pull it off,and a whole lot less machining? Maybe the pattern shop can give them a discount for doing both at the same time?(can't hurt to ask)o No: And like Sean said,and I'm sure anyone else wanting to buy heads would want the intake at the same time.(either duel,or single) Like I wrote earlier,why would anyone want to sandwich aluminum heads between an iron intake and an iron block with a different expansion rate than aluminum? It would be better to have an all aluminum top end than to do an aluminum sandwich.(iron being the bread) And if they had them started at the same time,I'm sure the intake would probably be done before the heads if the pattern shop is large enough to do them both at the same time?If so,they could be selling intakes while the heads are close to the finishing stages,that way people don't spend their $$ on iron head porting if al heads will be available very soon. And if TA can get the intake out by next fall,or winter,and the heads follow late winter to early spring,sales should be golden?:TUspring is a busier engine building season than the others,pre race) Get to work Mike!:laugh:
I really don't know which should be made first. TA has the data on how many sets of dual plane intakes they've sold, how many requests they've received for a single plane intake and more importantly, how many people have GUARANTEED purchase/ deposits for either the heads or the intake. From my perspective, I'd prefer to see the heads first. a) Finding a good set of heads for the 350 can be a pain in the butt! Once you go through 6-9 heads to get one good set you start to wonder if you really want to pour $2k worth of porting into them when they are that prone to cracking. I'd prefer to simply buy a set of Aluminum heads and be done with it. b) I already have a single plane intake! :bla:
I tend to agree with the idea of heads first. I just did a 350 rebuild. Based on my research I went with a stock intake instead of the TA because the dyno results just didn't justify the extra expense. If the duel plane isn't producing the gains it is capable of as the result of poor head design it would only make sense that the single plane would perform even worse. I like your marketing idea of intake first to provide the income for the head investment. However, you already have an intake that is not selling to it's full potential. Maybe there will be an increase of sales on your existing intake if you do the heads first. Just my thoughts.:3gears:
If these heads ever happen... IF. I wonder if T/A will do the valve relocation like the Rover heads? If so, how big can the valves get, and will they take SBC rockers? Will they do a Stage-2 version with revised ext-ports, and if so, how hard would it be to make them use SBC headers? We don't need what we already have, but made of aluminum. But it would be fantastic to get heads that are real game changers:3gears: P.S. I say intake first. The guys that already have ported heads need an intake right away. And having the intake on the market before the heads will generate new interest in 350 SBBs. We know T/A has the worst marketing in the entire history of business, so generating ''buzz'' is all they've gotou:
If you do not have ported stock heads the single plane will not do anything for you. it will actually take power away on a more stock motor. Most people on here do not have ported heads. Even if you have ported heads the single plane is going to move the power up higher and the horse and torque will be higher in the rpm range. Yes, I have ported heads and the single plane would benefit me right away but I would really rather put my money into the heads first that way they are on the motor and I can at least use the dual plane TA intake I already have. Both pieces at the same time though would be the ultimate. (SP and Alum heads) I think the heads will give more bang for the buck right off the bat then you can use the dual plane TA already has. This way you can use any carb you want and will not be limited to the Q-Jet with the stock intake. We already have an intake lets build the heads first that flow like a SOB then lets talk about a single plane intake. You guys going to tell me if I take my dual plane off my motor with my Ported heads and put the stock intake back on the car it is going to run faster? This is not possible because now I just added 50 lbs. back on the front of my motor, that is going to make it run faster. Yeah right. If you port the stock heads and put the Dual plane intake on it that is port matched to the heads you are going to run faster than with the stock intake. There will be 50 lbs less weight. That 5 HP that the stock intake has on the TA dual plane is not going to make up for the 50 lb reduction in weight. That Edelbrock carb on that stock intake with that stupid adapter is going to run like crap. That Edelbrock carb on a TA dual plane intake they already have is going to work good now because it will be a direct bolt on. So I say heads now and intake to follow. Hey, it isn't my fault Y'all did not buy the TA intake, I am ready to go. I want the SP as much as anyone else as I can use it now but I think the heads will be a bigger deal.
What ever comes first I am ready, just sold my 455 core so I'm ready to bite the SBB bullet if we are seeing some parts next season:TU:
I got a job again, so I'm down for heads and intake but would perfer heads 1st may have to get my billet crank made soon now
