Mopar meets a Stage One

Did your RX3 have turbo's on it?

 

1000 from a twin must have a MASSIVE turbo. I've seen a 1600 hp quad rotor, huge turbo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO1782B6RZw
The Puerto Ricans are into the 6's with 13B now with components designed by my engine builder. Who is this nutty Aussie you mention?

 

I could modify a 350 to make your turbo BBB look silly, just like anyone else could modify something to outrun me. Just depends how much money, will and time you have to do it.

I agree with Devon once you modify something all bets are off.

 

I think you guys misunderstood what I was trying to say. I operate a race track. I see truly stock small block old school muscle cars getting their butts whipped routinely by truly stock new cars ranging from WRX's to Corvettes. Most of the old school small block stuff is lucky to even get into the 10's in the 1/8th. Most of the newer stuff is running high 9's to low 10's. Which was to say newer stuff runs faster than old school small blocks. Now of course the newer stuff like Z06's, Camaro's and Mustangs are in the 8's which is what my 445 GS runs. Which is to say that the stock big block stuff runs about what some of the higher end new stock stuff runs.

 

base model vette aint a Z06 lol. If you want to go that far, a 2010 ZR1 is the God of stock performance from america, and the old 97'98 AMG CLK-GTR is the Ulitmate car to drag race.

Hell, the base model camaro now has over 300 hp in a V6. Power is up, but so is weight these days (comparatively). How come the old LS1 f bodies still kick these new SS's in the balls? Why are 550 hp gt500s not pushing into the 11s? The cars aren't that much heavier, and they are more aerodynamic and should have much better traction, I just dont see why the acceleration seems to stay the same even when the horsepower doubles.

 

Kris

Across the board they are faster. Just look at the speed increases across all drag racing classes from the early to the mid sixties relative to today.

There are 281 cid Mustangs running low 13s out of the show room which is better than the 13.38 second best time for a 70 stage 1 that was tops for the November 1984 Muscle Car Review compilation of various muscle car tests.

In 65-66 I was there when the first 66 427 Vette around here was run on a strip. We were astonished to see it run in the mid to high 12s at 110-114 mph. Now an intermediate Vette can do this while a ZO6 does mid 11s and the high 120s on the mph.

A GT 500 of today will dust a GT 500 from the late 60s. And you can go on and on. There is no need to deny it because it really does not matter. We modify these older car so they are now faster than stock and competitve.

 

I have it on vid and on youtube.
I smoked a early type 6 speed ZR1 corvette, that was using slicks, with my former 464 Stage 1 iron head engine, and to top it off..this was my last race with my old engine, and I didn't have any race tires, so I raced it with my streettires (Cooper Cobra's 275/60/15).
The Corvette owner was a former dragracer who traded his belair racer for a couple of corvettes.

I had to learn quickly how to leave the line with those streettires.
First pass I made, the ZR1 got a 2 or 3 maybe 4 car lengths headstart but I passed for the finishline.
Next run was against another corvette I smoked him even worse of the line.

I knew of this ZR1 fellows rep, all what I had heard was true.
In the pits, he came ranting at me that his ZR1 could do 320KPH.
I said that maybe true but it doesn't do 320KPH here on this 1/4 mile track.
He then said that he liked to race me on the German highway were he would smoke the Buick.
Anyway this guy was mad about losing...

I drove against a NASCAR type circuit chevy pickup also, but this guy had problems staying in his own lane a couple of times, so when I run against him I let him go to be sure I got drove my car in one piece home.

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But Rob he has a car that he can ride down the street with AC going in overdrive. It is a street car and not a dedicated race car.

I have a friend with a highly modified C6 that runs 4.0 sconds flat, 180 mph plus in an 1/8 mile. He had an LS7 in a late sixties door slammer Camaro that I saw run 8.2 seconds, 180 mph plus in a 1/4 mile.

 

I agree with Jim, sure a race car can beat a modern street-car, but it isn't difficult to answer which car a person (or especially his wife!) would prefer to drive 500-miles home after the races are over.

We can do all kinds of things to upgrade our old cars, but in the end, they are still old cars. That makes them unique, more interesting, and nostalgic, but it doesn't make them the better performing car; at the very least, when considered as an overall package.

Ih ave a 64 Skylark with a stage 2 455, a 50 Olds with a stage 2 455, a 37 Ford panel truck with a 400 SBC, and a 2004 Mustang Cobra. I like them all, but they are not the same. I only wish I could afford a C6 ZO6; my Cobra was a second choice.

 

2004 Cobra was supercharged and was really quick-- maybe 11s?

 

Tested at 12.9 with a 4.5 0-60.

some other interesting times.

1967 Chevrolet Corvette L71 5.6 13.8
2006 Chevrolet Corvette ZO6 3.5 11.5 (MT Oct ‘05)
2002 Chevrolet Corvette (Lingenfelter 427 twin turbo) 1.97 9.24:laugh:
2005 Pontiac GTO LS2 4.8 13.3 (C&D Jan ‘05)
1993 Pontiac Firebird Firehawk 4.9 13.5

L88 427 1967 Corvette V8 430 bhp @ 5200 rpm, 460 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm.
Performance: L88: 1/4 mile in 12.8 seconds @ 112mph.

 

More Buicks
1984 Buick Regal T Type 8.0 15.9
1985 Buick Regal Grand National 7.5 15.7
1986 Buick Regal Grand National 4.9 13.9
1987 Buick Regal GNX 4.7 13.5
1970 Buick GS Stage 1 13.30~ @ 105 mph(all I could find)

 

There is another mag test result for the 94 Cobra in the high 11s or low 12s.


For instance Feb 2007 "5.0 Mustangs and Super Fords" magazine was 11.88 seconds at 116 mph

Same Mag tested a 07 GT 500 at 11.36 at 124 mph with just drag radials added.

 

to the earlier ZR1 kill, they dont hold a flame to the new ones. The new vette should have been named the ZL1 in my opinion, it is a supercharged small block with about 640 horses and it's a rocket. The older ZR1s were high 13s to mid-low 14's, the new ones with a good driver will constantly hit mid-high 10s with the factory tires, this car even dominates in the standing mile drags. But it's $100k, it's not a sportscar anymore, it's a domestic super car. Bob Lutz just kicked Ferrari and Mercedes and Bugatti and the like in the nuts, saleen and even the GT from Ford arent able to compete with the amount of performance per price.

The newer GT500s are beasts, but for the amount of power they produce their times are not as impressive. I wasnt arguing with ya Jim about them being faster, just that they have a lot more power and for some reason arent a great deal faster (vipers being the epitomy of this). But as the post above me shows, slicks can make a nasty difference on these cars. I personally consider slicks a mod, in some cases they make more difference than a supercharger system.

As for the terminators (03-04 supercharged cobras) depending on the driver, in factory trim, they did anywhere from low 13's to mid twelves in factory trim. Slicks could put you in the low low 12's. The nasty thing about terminators is how cheap they are to put in the 9's. A diablo chip, cold air, full exhaust, smaller pulley, and slicks can put you in the 9's, one of my close friends is a real mustang nut and gets monthly MMFF mag and he shows me some of the nastier stangs they show. The terminators were a great deal lower in power/torque(around 100 on both), but maintain close times to the new GT500s. The new 2010 camaros have a fair amount of more power than their 98-03 siblings(even compared to the true power ratings, not GMs understating), but are amazingly enough slower than their older brothers.

The thing I like to point out is the L67 powered W bodies. $4k in parts on a grand prix or regal can put it in the 12's and with only about 400 hp, slap slicks on it and learn how to launch and you can run low 12's all day. Today we have 425 hp srt8 challengers running low 14's high 13's, and Im betting with slicks they still run low 13's at best.

 

Drag radials and not slicks. A mod? Sure but they are also just another type of street tire and I would not classify slicks as such.

Maybe we can agree that many cars of today have great potential. I too like the older cars much better.

 

As to the comparison to the Ferrari Mercedes and the Bugatti's[the Corvette] first of all you can't compare with the Bugatti.That car costs over a mil and it has over a thou hp.With the others,those cars are built for road racing,not drag racing.A road racing Ferrari or Mercedes with 180 CI makes over 800 horses,with no power adders,and they limit them in RPM,because they would make too much power.Let's call a spade a spade.BrunoD.

 

i realize a lot of you guys read these old magazine road tests to see what an old muscle car could do back in the days. some of these times are just not true. mgcslugger, the 1986 grand national and 1987 gnx 0-60 times you mentioned in your post were not that fast on a bone stock car. in 1987 the mechanic i worked with bought a brand new grand national. his car bone stock was mid to hi 14's. no way his 0-60 times was 4.9 seconds. the magazine tests do make for good conversation. the 1987 gnx was not a mid 13 second car bone stock. at least the ones i saw weren't.

 

Let me just chime in and say, theres nothing like the sound of a mildly tweaked big block, buick or otherwise, especially when that quadrajet bellows open and you rocket past all sorts of new expensive cars, with a 3 speed auto or muncie 4 speed. Muscle Cars RULE, I think it's really impressive that alot of these slightly tweaked 40 year old cars can still sneak past some of todays most high tech and high priced performance sedans, and sports cars. there was so much emphasis placed on excess power, styling, and availability, of these cars in the late 60's that they produced what for the time were probably mind bogglingly fast cars, stage 1's stage 2's, yenko 427 novas, zl1's, even 340 mopar's, and 302 zapper chevy z-28's, and the fact that they can still hold there own 40 YEARS LATER!

Case in point, my dad was driving his 70ss396 Nova complete with M-21, 12 bolt and 3.73's, up island to test the car out after adjusting the carb, timing, and routine tuneup, now this is an oval port, open chamber headed 396, a little bit of hand porting, stock valves, stock pistons, factory L88 aluminum intake off of a 427, 750 holley, headers, stock diameter dual exhaust through stock mufflers, and a BIG and I mean BIG, ancient crane solid circle track cam. Now he built the motor in 82, it's never been rebuilt since, and theres alot of HARD miles on it, when I say hard I mean 7400 rpm powershifts, 8000 rpm misshifts, put a pushrod through the valvcover once, 4.56 gears until the more recent 3.73s. anyway, a brand new srt8 charger came up in the passing lane wanting to play and dad dropped the ol muncie into third and wailed that old 396 up to 7200, slammed 4th, :3gears:chirped the cheater slicks, and started to pull away, he had at least 3 car lengths on him before they both let off at around 115 mph. And let me tell you that 396 sounds like god on the warpath, through those stock mufflers. It's just a beautiful peice of machinery:Brow:

Did I mention, two bolt mains.

 

First, The GT500 is a different animal all together.

In the Feb issue of 5.0 M&S, there was a shootout between the SVT Cobra and the Shelby GT 500. Both vehicles had similar bolt-ons.


The SVT Cobra had the following bolt-ons:

• PHP cobra high-flow airbox/filter
• Bassani midlength header,high-flow cat crossover pipe, and after- cat exhaust
• PHP throttle-body package
• PHP fuel rail kit
• PHP shifter assembly
• PHP Heat X-Changer with dual fans
• PHP blower snout with 208-inch pulley delivering 15psi ( stock is 3.6 inches)
• PHP IRS toe links and pinion-support bushings
• PHP/SCT tune

After a few disappointing runs, Paul of Paul’s High Performance used a manual clutch adjuster kit to attain cleaner engagement of gears, and quicker shifting on the SVT Cobra. This adjustment, coupled with bolt-ons; the car was able to make a solid pass of 116MPH@11.88 seconds. You can pick up this magazine if you can still find it. Of course this is not stock.


IMO there is no 2004 SVT cobra that fast thats completely stock. I ran them all through college in my WS6 and ls2 GTO. They were mid 13 sec cars on the street.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0206_ford_mustang_svt_cobra/index.html

I know these arent all accurate, you have to take all these #s you hear with a grain of salt. BUt nonetheless is fun to talk about.

 

:spank: :moonu: buick rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!