'What I suggested' would increase power and put it higher in the RPM band. It wouldn't 'kill' anything, it would improve it, but at a higher RPM where the cam needs to be so it can take full advantage of the overlap due to the absence of exhaust duration emphasis. Making what he has work the best it can with what he has in the engine already. The combo spacer is pretty popular because of its effectiveness, and an open spacer below it would add the extra volume for higher end. ---------- Post added at 01:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 AM ---------- I remember reading that. Nice info. The open spacer killed it--which makes sense since it was a Poston cam that would thrive on the stock intake design. Some of these items being presented are suggestions with uncertain results, but with predictable outcomes to a degree. Maybe he can just twiddle around and see which works the best and just leave well enough alone. ---------- Post added at 01:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 AM ---------- According to info Sean brought up in another thread, the open spacer probably isn't a good idea. Hey Derek...sorry man. I came off way too abrasive on that one comment. I should have just let it go. No big deal, and no hard feelings. It's late and I'm all jacked up on my meds and can't sleep. I shouldn't let stuff like that interfere with my judgement. I love all you guys! :bla::grin:
LOL,.. hey fella's we just all need to get along,.. Its just a SBB that needs a little more attention and its already doing more than we thought... It just needs to run consistent for the spring high school nationals in april,... after that this motor will probably go up for sale... We all have good advice, and great idea's, helping each other on here is what its all about in this small buick community.... I've always said if you want to go 10's or 11's you talk to the guy's that run those ET's and cut out some of the trial and error... I read the sbb threads and put everybodys ideas together..to run 12:90's or low 13's with a stock blk. and with that forum we achieved our goal and maybe more...I new what I had to do to get low 13's as a base line for this project, thus using the parts I had... Thanks to all that wrote anything about a sbb... I do have that drive to get a little more out of it, I just don't want to spend too much more money,... --My son is already wanting my Mid- 11 sec. 455 motor in his car,...LOL ,.. But now I want to go 10:50's with cast iron heads, cause I know somebody thats doing it,... auh, this never ends.. Peace my friends....Jerrold
Why don't you just throw in some boost with the 350 if you want a FAST car.:Brow: Like Sean said,with a little NoS that thing would be in the elevens,well with a little boost it should be in the 10s.:TUif you can get the suspension to hook?) You know a Millwright to help you fabricate it don't you?uzzled: Derek
I use a 1" open spacer on my engine and when I used the larger 510 cam the 2" open spacer moved the max HP and TQ numbers up in the rpm range. It also stayed at the max HP longer also. My air cleaner was hitting the hood though so I went back to the 1". With my smaller cam I just use the 1" open spacer. The nitrous plate adds about 1/2" to the carb. When I had the 350 trans in I had this nice loose 3500 stall convertor in and I could foot brake it to 3 grand. I was getting 60 fts in the 1.74 range. The 125 shot of nitrous was getting me in the 1.60's. But, I have a suspension set up from H-O Racing where I have big sway bars and heavy springs with adjustable shocks this makes the car handle real well but I know I am giving up a lot on the top end. I found at the track if I kept the engine temps down to 150 on startup to go to the staging lanes I ran my most consistent times and was able to get in the top 3 at Norwalk a couple of times at the Buick nats there by using that strategy. I do think maybe you could try a 2" spacer and use one of those Wilson type spacers where it is 4 hole then tapers into an open spacer. This might prove to be the best of both worlds, I am thinking of trying it myself. Nice job with the 350, I knew it could be done you just have to get it all working together. Looser suspension, more stall will help a lot, the engine just seems to like it better to be in a higher rpm range on launch. With the 510 cam now I would go with a 4000 stall and a 411 gear or more. This is the cam I am currently using.
Could always give it a try. That combo spacer (starts off as 4 hole then tapers out into an open design) I've read nothing but good from it from people who've used it.
The 4-1 spacer sounds like a good idea, I have a 1/2" and 1" open spacer I will try, but,. don't know if I will get back to the track before it closes,... Also thinking about moving the shift points up to 6000 rpm...:shock:.... and loosening up the frt. suspension... maybe put weight in the trunk...o No:
Wilson has this in 2inch i beleive http://www.wilsonmanifolds.com/products/spacers/combo-carburetor-spacers/4500-combo-spacers.html
If you do make it to the track one more time this year,you can disconnect the sway bar links in the front,that will help a lot for weight transfer allowing the front end to lift easier. Also taller tires(if you have some to try) in the front would help too,for launching,it won't look as cool but will point more weight towards the back. In the rear,make sure you have about 1 1/2 to 2 degrees of negative pinion angle measured in relationship to the trans.So for example,if the trans is pointing down 2 degrees,the pinion needs to point down 3 1/2 to 4 degrees from zero using an angle finder.(incase this isn't how you did this already?) I would say because your running out of time this year,to try the 2 open spacers you have as a bandaide to help try and get the traction issues under control. I wouldn't say that it would be the optimal spacer combo for the most HP and torque gain,but it might be good for a crutch dealing with your traction issues,it might help to bring the torque a little higher after the car has some momentum? Next year when you get the traction under control,you can optimize the carb spacer situation.(I don't want to argue about which spacer(s) are for the best hp and T gains because I mostly agree with everyone else,recommending an open spacer(s) to try to get traction under control.) With the cooler temps your going to get some better air(if humidity is in check)and a slipperier track because its not as sticky when its cold.(for people that don't know that,I know you,Jerrold know this) So make sure Chandler heats the tires enough,and make sure he dries them after coming out of the burnout box going to the line.(not sure what your tecnique is,you need to post some videos,LOL) You shouldn't need weight in the trunk if you try all of above?,at first try running it with just a full tank of gas,and add weight if needed.And have fun!!GL(if you do make it out again) Derek
I was thinking about the Hamburger one like this: for square bore, or this one for a Qjet: Could put an open spacer beneath it, or just shave down the divider a little on the TA intake. This part of the process is where it takes tweaking, and once material has been removed, it can't be put back (at least not very easily). This taper effect is more than just a rough-edge 4 hole on top of an open design. This design would help draw out fuel and air from the bottom of the carb. This is the spacer that I've read a lot of good about. There's another square bore version that has a center divider retained for lower RPM applications, and they make these for 2 barrels too. Many circle track racers use them because it helps create a harder draw on the bottom of the carb and makes the carb act larger than it is. These designs have flares from side to side as well, so that some cross-over action goes on with plenum reversion and top end draw.
Hey Gary,.. sorry, I didnt notice you posted about these spacers... Never heard of Hamburger spacers, but that 4 hole square bore looks sweet... How much do these cost,.... I might use one for my big block too...:Brow: I'm not sure how much a spacer change is going to work, until I get the car to hook,... So when we pushed the convertor to 2500 +,. causing the car too bind up tight on the suspension, thus causing it not to transfer back on the rear tires fast enough... but I thought this might happen cause the 3500 conv. is not loose like i thought it would be,.. need a 4000 or 4500 stall, but may not be good for street driving...lol... So with no split dur. on this cam its just soggy soft below 3200 rpm.. with no tire spin that is.. The 850 holley worked great for the cold weather weve been having, but thinking it might be effecting the launch because of the larger venturies, ( it never stumbled or bogged , it was dead on the whole test n tune night)..so I might work on the 750 holley DP again to see if it will crispin up the bottom hit and also add more timing 34* to 36*... its at 32* now in at 2100 rpm... These changes might cut down the 60 ft. times... and add a couple tenth's on ET and mph.. I did want to baseline the car as it was driven on the street, sooo now we will work on the suspension in the spring,.. this is nothing new to me,.. my 72' skylark suspension is set up for street / strip battle...
If the car has a th350 trans then a 2004R trans might be a good swap option! Having a lockup converter is great for the street.. You could have a 5000 Stall converter and 100% lockup on the highway and cruiding at 1800 RPM... This is one of the main reasons I went with a 4L80E trans, I wanted to have my cake and eat it too...
I think Sean said it wasn't cheap, but it's what he wanted. Best to save up and pay extra for what you really want or you'll be driving a car that you won't be 100% satisfied with. Those spacers are around 100 bucks I think--not cheap. Hamburger also makes one that retains the center divider for lower-end applications: Though a soft insulating gasket would be needed sandwiched between the spacer and the intake adapter plate on the TA intake in order to seal the divider because the adapter plate doesn't have a center divider, but is very thin. Being spongy on low end, this spacer will be your ticket for improvement, unless you don't mind or want to add more stall and shoot for top end only with good mid-range, in which case the spacer shown in my earlier post would be it.
I like my 200r4, it is the best thing I ever bought. I ran it with the nitrous several times so it can hold up to some power. I have a switch to lock up the convertor and I just found out recently that I can lock it up in second gear. (May have to try that at the track). With my 373 gear and 28" tire I am at 2200rpm @ about 65mph. I like the look of the spacers I may try one myself next year. I also run one of those K&N Flow control air cleaners I wonder how well the spacer will work with that since the air cleaner has a shaped lid that directs the air in.
A lot more money than most people are willing to spend LOL... For your average car under 500 HP the 2004R is a better less expensive option... I am building the entire car to handle 1000 HP even though I will not make that much power with the Buick 350 I want to have a beefy platform so that there are no weak links and to add to the durability. That being said I found the 4L80E for a great deal with $2100 in recipets for the rebuild and never been used as the guy's truck was rear ended and wrote off. It was for a 2WD 1995 1 ton Chevy truck application. I got the trans for $1000 like I said fresh rebuild. Sold the stock replacement converter for $200 as it was new as well. Bought a $750 Hughes converter built for 1000 HP and it was on sale but normally $1000 and it was custom built for my specs with a 3000 Stall and 100% lockup for the highway. I was going to need a new driveshaft anyways as I would not trust the stocker anyway so that was not really an extra cost, it is a th400 spline count though so you can steel a th400 shaft and have it shortened. The cross-member needs to be moved on the frame. Needs an adapter plate between the engine and trans as the top two bolts are different on the BOP engines. I had one from a long time ago but they are about $60. The spedo either needs an expensive adapter or just run a modern spedo from a junkyard. To control the trans without a computer you need a manual valvebody. I opted for a steering wheel mounted paddle shifting system for manually controlled shifts through a custom computer so no auto shifts which is fine for me. $300 for the paddle shifters and $280 for the computer. Auto shifting controller range from $600-$1000 but the good ones you can adjust shift firmness, shift points etc... Some good ones even have a few settings so you can have neck snapping 7000 RPM shift points with maximum firm shifts, or press a button and have 4500 RPM shifts granny smooth... My column shifter stays in place and will select park, R, N, and Drive. Then all shifts are from the steering wheel. The lockup converter is my favorite part about the swap, and a few simple wires and thats done. One can have a 5000 stall converter and have 100% lockup on the highway. I normally gain 1-3 MPG with the lockup over a non lockup trans, and less wear and tear on the highway at 1800-2000 RPM even with a nice gear in the rear. If someone wants a trans to handle years of high HP and TQ abuse then the 4L80E is a good option... For the rest of the people the 2004R is the best bet.
Yes, it is a really good setup! It may cost more than other options up front but when I can hang onto the steering wheel with both hands while trying to keep the car straight and bang through the gears with my thumbs! And when the turbos are spooled up I do not have to worry about the drive-train bouncing off the pavement. I need to setup a speed alert as the top speed potential in 4th gear with the 31" tall tires and 3.42 gears would be enough to put me in jail at just 3500 RPM (135 MPH)....
They should come up with a 'hot rod license' that people would have to pass several driving tests with a powerful car and circumventing or preventing certain obstacles while in a real-world scenario, as well as a psychological analysis of the potential licensee to discern and afford placement within certain parameters of good judgement, willfulness to keep others and one self safe, etc. The driving test would be performed using a computerized simulation pod. This way our speed limits would be higher than people with regular licenses, and our speeding tickets less with at least 1 warning before any tickets were issued, with no penalties for doing burnouts on the streets. Activities must be limited to unpopulated areas with minimal risk of pedestrians or other drivers within a certain radius of the vehicle the hot rodder is in. Tickets would be doubled for breaking the law within populated areas where the hot rodder knew better than to cut up in the area and/or disturbing the peace. Tickets would be based on personal discretion of both the hot rodder and the officer. Hey a guy can dream, can't he? haha
