I've built a few 11 sec. 455 buick motors with cast iron heads but this is my first low budget buick 350 motor build.. I have alot of good parts lined up and a recipe in mind, hoping to meet a goal of 12;90 to 13;20's... I've read every sbb 350 post and thread their is on this board and Im still unsure about one thing... My question starts with a stock 1970 buick 350 2 bbl.. motor with 78.K miles on it and it runs very good.. I just want to build around the short block starting with my t/a 310 cam knowing the power band is 2k to 6k.. Q.---- with the dreaded stock rods and rod bolts how much can I safely spin this motor and it stay together.. **** Parts I have***,.. 69 heads, big valve heavily ported and milled,.. prob. 9-8 comp.. T/A intake ported, 6 qt. deep oil pan -baffled and crank scraper,.. 800 dp holley, hooker headers, MSD box, worked HEI dist. curved and mech. adv. slot welded half way...and 350 trans & 3000 stall conv. and 3;73 gears,..2 1/2 exh..flow masters... small 4" alum. crank pulley, high volume oil pump...also pro star wheels and drag radials....*** LOW budget,***.. every part here is used or new but traded for with other buick parts,...still a few benjamins deep... This is going in my 17 yr-old sons 1970 skylark post sedan...hopefully ready to roll in the spring.. This motor could easily run hard up to 6K rpm.... but thinking I might should shift it alot sooner...o No: o No: Well... shoot me your thoughts and opinions... thanks jerrold,...
With the 310 camshaft you will likely run the fastest shifting at about 5900 RPM. You can always try shifting at a lower RPM and seeing what works. The 350 engine revs well, GS Johnny likes to shift at about 7000 with his mild 350 and it holds up. He did rev to 10,000 one time before he hit the wall and the engine lived. I spun a rod bearing one time but that was at about 7900 RPM, I even drove the engine 20 miles home knocking and did a few brakestands on my road and the engine never did give up it just kept running strong. All that having been said, shift the car at the lowest RPM you can and still run the speeds you want in the quarter mile. The less RPM the longer it will last in general. I plan to shift my Turbo 350 engine at 5000 RPM and maybe raise the RPM to 5400 if I have to in order to meet my goal in the quarter mile. I do have the MSD ignition set to 6200 max RPM just incase.
Hey Jerrold,sup. Using the older 70 stock short block, the factory rods and rod bolts aren't going to hold up to that kind of power unless you try not to spin it over 5,000 RPM,with heads that YOU ported,it should make some really GOOD power.(I've seen your work,your pretty dam good at head porting) Hopefully your MSD box has the rev limiter,may be the only thing that saves it. If anything else,put some ARP bolts in the rods you have now,that should help it hold together better than the factory ones,and maybe be ale to spin it a little more. If you're tearing it down that far anyway,taking the pistons out isn't that much more work. You can save 50% by using 283 sbc rod bolts,here's a ebay link; http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARP-Rod-Bol...pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr Don't know why the Buick ones are more expensive,here's the ebay link to a set of Buick ARP rod bolts; http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARP-ROD-BOL...a&item=140358015962&pt=Race_Car_Parts&vxp=mtr The sbc ones were used in the Hot Rot Mag. 300 stroker build on the 300 rods,don't see why they wouldn't work on the 350 rods. If anyone knows if they will or won't work,please chime in. By the way,Happy New Year!! I sent you a PM a while back,not sure if you got it though. Maybe I'll see you at the track this summer?
I ran my 71 350 to 6000 somewhat frequently with it's factory short block. Had great oil pressure and never had problems with the bottom end.
I've run my '69 350 with stock rods/bolts to 6000 on many occasions and it's still together. I usually try to shift 1/2 at 5400 and 2/3 at 5600, but sometimes I forget!
What cam,and what kind of port work is done with your stock bottom ends? If Jerrold said he did "big valve heavily ported and milled" the heads,the power is going to come in stronger than a non-ported engine,and make it a lot easier to break weak parts. Just sayin,and he's good at porting,so the heads should flow a whole lot of air,and not to mention he's good at tuning also.And when he gets that holley 800 DP tuned in,it should rev really quick with that 3.73 gear,and launch hard. It could hold together(how long though?),at that power level,a little insurance goes a long way. If not,his 17 year old son may eventually find the weak link? Hey Jerrold,do you have any flow numbers on your heads?
The stock rods should be safe to about 450 HP if the revs are kept under 6500 RPM. I know that with the 73 rods and ARP bolts it is reliable in the 550 HP range as that has been proven already.
I've bounced off the 5800 rev limiter on many occasions with boost when the tires spin at the top of first and second.. But I do have ARP bollts and newer style rods..
I am sure I will have the same problem... People keep telling me my car will be slow with a 3.42 gear but I think it will just give the tires a fighting chance to hook at 100 MPH LOL. And you estimate you are making about 550 HP with your combo right? That should be safe for the stock rods as you are keeping the revs down under 5800. It is tough to guess HP as there are so many factors. I would say between 320 and 420 HP depending on how things work together. The only concern I would have is the 9.8:1 compression with the 310 cam... I would shoot for 10.5:1 with that cam.
Well I PMed Jerrold,and offered him a set of 77 rods,maybe he can get some better pistons to up the compression too if he gets the rods from me. He might need an SFI balancer,that he didn't mention having,to be able to run it at the track.(if they check that) We'll get him in the low 12s to high 11s if he wants to or not. LOL
Not to rob the OPs thread, I am planning on cast 10:1 pistons on my build. I will have an MSD with the rev limiter set at 6K. Don't plant to hit that number unless I miss a shift. I too would like to go with cap screw rods. Are they hard to come by? I searched the parts for sale. Not too many sales, but maybe that's due to demand not supply... Also can someone answer the Chevy ARP bolts as opposed to Buick bolts question previously posted. . .are the interchangeable?.
The chevy bolts that were posted look like the type for the earlier style rods with the stud/nut design.. But I don't actually know if they interchage.. The preferred rod has an actual capscrew (bolt).. Ive been told that the ARP bolts for the turbo V6 cars are the same.. But they only come 12 tgo a pack.. ---------- Post added at 05:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 PM ---------- They made them for 6 years.. So, they shouldn't be..
Hey Derek, thanks for the Kudo's buddy,.. hopefully this little motor will turn on for me, I'm playing with fire here... Sean, thanks for chiming in, I didn't think stock rods would handle 450 hp, it makes me feel a little more comfortable,..but will prob. start with 5500 rpm shifts to begin with...limiter set at 5800.. Hoping for 350 to 375 hp... To all you other guys shifting at 6000 rpm makes me smile, I might have to try that a few times with this motor... OK... the heads,.. I told Derek I didn't do these heads but after looking at them real close I liked what I saw for the price that also included the t/a intake and cam...Theres over 700.00 dollars in head work on the bill I saw from a shop on the eastside of detroit. mi and the numbers at .500 lift are at least 235 cfm my guess,.. but I seen the numbers on the flow sheet were a lot higher,.. I'm skeptical...But does have big valve 1.92's and springs to handle 500 lift cam...can't remember how much they were milled,.. ***Whats the stock CC on 69 heads., I've seen 48cc to 58cc,..o No:,.. hince guessing 9-8 to 1 comp.. steel head gasket,..heads have never been used.. The parts have been sitting at this guys house for over 10 yrs and just stumbled on the deal of parts..I paid way less than $700 for all 3 pieces.. Derek, thanks for the offer on the parts, I will keep these in mind.. Well... out to the garage,,,:Brow:... and more comments accepted... Thanks again..
I think Jay is right that 100% for sure he chevy ARP will not fit the later rods. I for one wouldnot bother re-sizing let alone adding ARP to the early 68-72 rods... Might as well use a set of 73-80 rods. I would trust a set of 73-80 rods stock over a set of early rods with ARP anyway. I would post a parts wanted add for rods or better yet look locally and find a late model Buick 350 with the good rods. I am a hoarder, but my strategy to find 73-80 rods was to find a running 73-80 Buick that was rusted out and buy the whole car for $200-$400. Then I had a complete engine, good trans, and other parts to rob then scrap the rest. I did this till I had a pile of 350s that filled half my barn LOL! Speaking of revving Buick 350s, here is a bone stock Buick 350 with 35,000 miles. This Century was a one owner car, documented miles but the roof rusted out and the interior got trashed. All due to the vinyl roof! Anyways i set the shift lift on the tach at 6000 and I remember seeing the light a few times on this little drive. I bought the car for $250, added $100 in parts for a tune up, some used hookers, and a new Q jet I had on the shelf and had fun for a few weeks till I parted it out. The engine is still on the stand as a spare. This is a bone stock engine, no mods just a good "sean Buick 76" tune up and hooker headers. I wish I had video of me running it on the highway and hitting the 100 hp shot of nitrous at 100 MPH LOL, this was before the nitrous: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy1cOuE4x4Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbiqdPVLpnE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GljRr5PauLI
I use the 73 cap screw rods with ARP everywhere and with the 510 cam the power was at 6 grand. I had the rev limiter at 6400 and would do this fairly easily. With the smaller Lunati cam I shift at 6 grand and set the rev limiter at 6200. Been doing that since 1994. The engine is all balanced.
Thanks for the replys fella's, My son is learning alot,.. hopefully he will retain something along the way, so much to do... The comp will probably be closer to 10 - 1 or a little more and the heads have been cut but still have to CC them.. thanks jerrold
Jerrold, need a pan or timing cover? Might have a dipstick tube as well. Somehow I still have 350 parts...
Hey Rob,.. whats up,..! Not really,.. I landed a good deal on a deep pan, t/a timing cover, t/a alum valve covers and alum pulley from a guy a yr. ago on the board, and got a good deal on some well ported heads, t/a intake, double roller chain and steel rockers from a guy here in farmington hills...and a 310 cam.. thanks anyway,..
