Hot Rod Magazine 300" Stroker Buildup!

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by No Lift, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    Usually Sean and I are in agreement, but in at least one particular I'd recommend close attention to the SBB oiling system and that is the end play of the gears. The closer you can set those the better your oil pressure will be. And as long as you're in there I definitely recommend the steel booster plate and then it doesn't take much at that point to smooth the sharp corners which will help flow considerably to and from the pump. Lastly, at the very least I'd suggest using the 5/8" tube V6 pick-up. If you can it's a good idea to drill out the pick-up journal in the block as well. You can go all out porting and polishing the ports and passages which doesn't do any harm but is a fair bit of work, but 5 or 10 minutes with a die grinder gets most of it done easily.

    You can get by without doing any of this stuff, the factory did. But I'd do it on any engine I'm building. More oil to the bearings is a good thing.

    JB
     
  2. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Good points JB, especially about smoothing the sharp corners!:beer
     
  3. 401Eric

    401Eric Active Member

    Sean, when do you think your book will be available? I want your book too! Jefferson's book doesn't cover any SBBs below the 350s!

    Jim, as always, thanks for your input!
    Regards, Eric
     
  4. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    The book is almost done, but I feel I have to get my Twin Turbo 70 Skylark to the track before I can put it out. PM me if you need any info I am glad to share. :beers2:
     
  5. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 27 years of racing the same 355 Buick motor

    I can tell you how much you need to worry about the oiling system on the 350. I bought my Skylark in 1977 and I ran the snot out of it. I had 50,000 miles on it when I bought it and by 1979 I had 100,000 miles on it. I then put in new rings and rod bearings and had the valves reground. Put it all back together and drove it. I let my stupid ex-wife go with her girlfriend to take a week trip somewhere and she overheated the motor and when she got back it was ok. At this point I never had done any oil mod to the engine.

    In 1982 after I was all done with marriage I decided to put in a cam and a 4bbl intake with headers and duals. I put in the Comp Cam 268 High Energy cam with the new lifters and so on. At this point I still never did anything to the oil pump. I didn't even break in the engine right. I LET IT IDLE for the break in. I thought at this time this is what you do. Well the rockers still made the engine tick so I bought new shafts and rockers and all the noise went away.

    I was still driving the crap out of it with its 265 rear gear and had a stock convertor in it. I had a rebuilt trans with shift kit. I could do a 100mph in second gear. I raced anyone on the street that wanted to race. I added a HEI distributor and this helped the performance a lot. A one half turn of the key and it was running. By now I had over 140,000 miles on the motor

    By 1985 I put the car away to start to paint it. This did not work out as planned and in 1988 I pulled the car out of the garage I had it in and had it painted. Put a new suspension system at all 4 corners I used the H-O Racing set up if anyone remembers that. I redid everything inside and out. I was back out on the street by 1990. I still had my 265 rear gear and was running a 16 second 1/4 mile time. At this time was when I had put in some gauges.

    1991 was when I finally put in the gauges. I had 5 lbs of oil pressure at idle and maybe 25 cruising. I then change the rear gear to a 373 and then I was running 15's in the 1/4. Oil pressure never got over 30 lbs at 3000 rpm on the highway. I had a Holley 650 Spread bore on it. The carb was ok but still not as good as I had wanted it to. At this time I put in the plate and the larger gears for the oil pump. this did not do a whole lot for the oil pressure. I think I now had the 5lbs at idle instead of "0".

    I then got a Thermoquad in 1991 from the junk yard and rebuilt it and put that on. Well now I was baking the tires out of the hole with 275-60 15" BFG's Radial TA's on the car. My oil pressure would almost go to "0" when at a stop light. I was always running 20-50 Valvoline Racing oil with a can of the good ole STP treatment.

    Then I decided to put in some of that Royal Purple synthetic stuff. Well that was a mistake. The first thing I noticed on the way to the track was I now only had 25 lbs of oil pressure at 3000 rpm.

    When I got to the track and did my burn out I noticed that the engine sounded like it was flooding some but then it cleaned up. I went down the track and somewhere the car had slowed down some at the end and when I pulled off I heard that terrible sound. The motor was knocking.

    Well, we decided to go ahead and just drive it home and just take it easy. I had to make a 30 mile trip from Dragway 42 to Akron. That was with a 373 gear and I was still running at about 2500 rpm with it knocking. I made it then I decided to pull the motor and I thought it was time to get it all done then. I had about 160,000 miles at this time.

    The crank had cracked in half and that was what went wrong with the motor. The bearings were not too bad but they weren't good either. I got that same motor rebuilt and by 1994 I had it all back together and I am still running today. The only oil mod I had ever done was put in the larger gears and new wear plate at the time. The engine builder did all the oil mods that needed to be done to the motor, same as the 455. It was that damn Royal Purple the screwed everything up. You can bet I never used that oil again.

    How' that for a story for ya Sean. All true.

    Should you do the oil mods YES. I just got lucky. That 20-50 Valvoline Racing oil and STP saved me at the time.

    I now have about 180,000 miles on the car.:Brow:

    Later, Guy
     
  6. 401Eric

    401Eric Active Member

    Your story brings back memories of my own mis-spent youth. I had a 68 440 Charger R/T that burned a quart of oil every 500 miles, had very low oil pressure too but still ran mid-14s in the 1/4. I was running straight 60 weight Valvoline racing oil in it to keep it alive. And of course I miss that car terribly!

    Broken parts are a rite of passage. A red badge of courage. Of course now we are older and wiser and breaking parts is unacceptable. Still, I hope you saved that crank! Do you have any pictures of it? Where did it break at?
    Regards, Eric
     
  7. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 27 years of racing the same 355 Buick motor

    I didn't take any pictures of it and I think that it broke after the thrust bearing. I was amazed that it was cracked in half and I drove a 30 mile trip home with it running at 2500 rpm to get there. I don't think I saved it I may have to look and see. I have some old parts in a building I have out back that used to be a print shop.
     
  8. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Cool story! I have a 350 here that has 340,000 documented miles on it, bearings look ok. Oil changed every 8000. It had 5 psi at idle and 55 psi at 4000 rpms but no issues at all. :beer
     
  9. 401Eric

    401Eric Active Member

    Sean, if Guy can find that old broken crank and take a few pictures of it, you should include them in your book!
    Regards, Eric
     
  10. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 27 years of racing the same 355 Buick motor

    I really don't think I saved it and I can't get into the building right now there is too much snow. Plus that was over 15 years ago. But I will look when I can get into the building. I did save a lot of the old parts from the old motor. Maybe I need to have a garage sale. maybe a new post on some of your old parts and mishaps should be started. We are kinda getting off track on the 300 motor here. But we need some fun to break up some of the crazyness here.

    I would like to put a 100 shot of nitrous on that 300 and I bet it would be in the 11's easily with a 373 gear and a 3000 stall. All that in a 3800 lb. plus car. The car has a little more power than mine and I went 11.81@114 on a 125 shot.

    Where is that owner at we need to talk to him:Brow:
     
  11. 401Eric

    401Eric Active Member

    If he'll supply the video recording device, I'll even record his runs for him so he can post them here!
    Regards, Eric
     
  12. 87GN@Tahoe

    87GN@Tahoe Well-Known Member

    It would be nice if one of the moderators deleted the childish bantering out of this thread, and left the posts pertaining to the topic at hand.
     
  13. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    X2 but I fear it is too late..... No sign of the builder or the engine owner, nice welcome the V8Buick guys:spank:
     
  14. 401Eric

    401Eric Active Member

    I've said it before but I guess it needs to be said again. If the engine's builder were truly interested in helping people out, educating folks and advancing the hobby, he would have posted the additional pictures we requested and answered more of the questions that were asked by some of us. But he is too concerned with keeping his "proprietary" information to himself so he can build the engine for you (for a fee) rather than helping you learn how to do it for yourself. Don't believe me? Go back and look at how he brushed off some folk's questions by telling them that they could either contact him at his site or PM him, instead of simply answering their questions here in the thread. You can also go back and look at how he gave my questions the big brush off, ticking me off enough that it caused me to figure some things out for myself, which I then proceeded to share with all of you. Yes, I did allow my ticked-off state to show through a little too much in several of my posts and for that I sincerely do apologize.

    Dave has plugged his site here, he has accomplished what he set out to do. That is why he has become less active now, not because of his treatment here. If all Dave wants to do is take and not give, is he really that big of a loss? Losing me would be a much bigger loss as I freely share my knowledge, all of my knowledge, without holding any of it back, and without the ulterior motive of trying to get into your wallet. And some of the more knowledgeable folks here have already acknowledged that I clearly do know a thing or two!

    Also, you guys need to give yourselves more credit, as I think a good number of you could do an even better engine than what we are talking about here in this thread. Don't be scared to try!

    I hope that "childish bantering" remark wasn't directed at me as my posts here in this thread have contributed much good, pertinent info to anyone wanting to explore some of the different ways to build a stroker 300, ways that even Sean admitted were/are worthy of further investigation. Just because Dave has become less active now shouldn't dissuade you all from that view and attitude. The "childish bantering" posts are the ones where folks only made personal attacks and personal remarks about other people and didn't add one bit of useful information about building a stroker 300.

    Posts like that are what cause "childish bantering" posts in the first place. Why not refrain from making posts like that and stop "childish bantering" posts in the first place? By leaving a post like that you are of course gonna get a reply, which of course likely causes more responses, and now we are off topic again after some of us had worked so hard to get this thread back on topic and civil again. What have you accomplished? Things were finally nice again here and now your post has threatened to derail things again.
    Regards, Eric
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  15. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 27 years of racing the same 355 Buick motor

    You are right, that kinda refueled the comments. I knew it would happen. This site should be a place where you give and take information. Based on your own experiences. If everyone goes back and reads the posts the comments are made everywhere. So which ones do you eliminate. The comments are made here, other sites and even in E-Mails on TV. I got cut off on the highway 3 times yesterday. It starts there and ends here. Do this, Do that, that is too much cam, too much convertor, the pistons are not correct.

    The motor was a great motor and it has just been picked apart. I thought it was a easy 13 second motor and someone commented that it won't keep up with the Mustangs and Camaro's of the world. Who the Hell cares. I thought is was a great build but someone always has to make a comment. This is why there was there was this big breakup between the GSCA and the other Buick people. Everybody thinks they are right and you are wrong. Sounds like a Chebby site don't it? I am right and you are wrong. It's a joke. Like I said the Sun needs to shine so we can get outside and get the bugs out of our heads. Chill out all. I dought that anybody will agree with me because we just can't do that now can we?
     
  16. 401Eric

    401Eric Active Member

    Just to be clear, if Dave had only treated my original two posts here with just a little more respect and had answered and addressed the questions in them I never would have had to figure things out for myself on my own which led me to figuring out some other alternative ways of doing things. I never would have even questioned his way of doing it. He is the one that sent me on this path. It is clearly obvious to anyone who reads those original posts.
    Regards, Eric
     
  17. :Dou:

    only 30 posts and over half of them are abrasive. please make it a point NOT to post in my threads as your abrasive and self serving attitude doesnt fly well with me. I will do just fine on my 300 build on my own and you can start your own thread to pick it apart.
     
  18. exfarmer

    exfarmer Well-Known Member

    Eric, why would you get so bent out of shape because someone didn't answer your questions as quickly or in the way you wanted? No need to take it personally. But I think what pi**ed off most people was your "I am right and you are wrong and/or just stupid" attitude that is so appaerent in all your posts re: the 349 build. Share your ideas but don't belittle other people's ideas. Even IF Dave didn't give your questions the respect YOU thought they deserved, he did not "send you on this path", you chose to take it yourself!
    "It is clearly obvious (that Dave is responsible for the thread becoming a rant) to anyone who reads those original posts." I think you are the only one who finds this obvious.
     
  19. CanadianBird

    CanadianBird Silver Level contributor

    I can't believe how this thread unravelled into a kindergarden squabble. Probably alienated a couple of good knowledgable people along the way. I am as happy as clam at high tide that our little three hundred got some mainstream exposure. Nice build.
     
  20. 401Eric

    401Eric Active Member

    "Self serving"? Am I trying to get into your wallet?

    Those "abrasive" posts are usually simply responses to others posts that were abrasive.

    Some of you are also focusing way too much on the negative remarks and way too little on the positive contributions. Are you "the glass is half empty" types?

    And look at how all of you guys are dragging this thread back off topic again!

    Go back and read the whole thread again. Dave's unwillingness to share anything more than just the bare basic essential information is an affront to us all. That is not the attitude of someone who wants to advance the hobby for the hobby's sake. My God, he wasn't even willing to share ANY information and/or pics about the intake manifold mods! That is a vital part of this build as we don't have any other intake manifold options. He posted telling me to just stick one on my flow bench and go to work on it. What a smart a** post! Well, I don't work for a guy who has one like his boss does. I don't have one hiding up my rear end either. I just checked just now just to be sure.

    And again, I've never claimed to know everything. I even admitted to not knowing how to tell a 300 from a 340! (I know now though!)

    So you want me to let it go? I already had!!

    What is it with some of you? Do some here make these pot shot posts just to get a response out of people? Is it just to see what they'll say? Is it just for grins?

    Don't blame me. I'm not the one who drug this thread back off topic again.

    The posters here claiming I have this "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude should look at their own posts.

    If we want to stop alienating folks then maybe we ought to stop the "kindergarden (sic) squabbling". Ya think? (We actually already had.)
    Regards, Eric
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011

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