Hot Rod Magazine 300" Stroker Buildup!

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by No Lift, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. DEADMANSCURVE

    DEADMANSCURVE my first word : truck

    for clarification please refer to the "charlie sheen" post up in the bench . in other words eric - lighten up - it ain't life , its just cars and parts . we have other stuff to do , other people in our lives to take care of and help out , we actually can't spend 24/7 making sure every nuance of a post we put together in 100% correct for every reader . take the information given , run with it , get what you can out of it . if he didn't want to share some good info he wouldn't have been on here in the first place .
     
  2. 401Eric

    401Eric Active Member

    Dave was on here to plug his site.

    I agree with the rest of your post wholeheartedly which is why I and some others here had already steered this thread back on topic and civil again. Personal attacks get me riled up though.
    Regards, Eric
     
  3. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    I'm really getting tired of this. Eric, can't you just let it go? Do you always have to get in the last word? When is enough enough? There will never come a day when everyone accepts your point of view, eventually you must accept that. And this "Holier than thou" attitude is hurting your case tremendously. Nobody cares anymore who did the most to go off topic.

    JB
     
  4. dynodave349

    dynodave349 Member

    Karl and I both agree that the thread Hot Rod Magazine 300 stroker buildup started out as a constructive forum that we were happy to contribute to, but ultimately devolved into an unruly slug fest. For some reason, (we can think of a few) the mediators of this site did not see a problem even though a lot of members did. One member observed that it was almost as if a a shop down the street from Joe Shermans was trying take business away. Actually, we believe this statement is not far from the truth except, it isnt a shop down the street. We also found it a little odd, and unlikely a coincidence, that only a few days after our first couple of post, a brand new member suddenly pops ups and begins demanding more information and pictures from us and then proceeds to become our biggest critic. Someone or, more likely some entity, seems to feel threaten by all the attention and adulation our magazine project has generated. A competing entity would not feel threatened if a motors performance was less or as expected, only if it was much better than expected. If we had made 300 H.P. instead of close to 400, or used a 350 block instead of a 300, would we have been in their cross hairs? The Buick enthusiast world is a relatively small community with just a handful of key players. A new comer with a new approach might not set well with the established players, especially if he achieved results that are beyond expectations.
    . As we explained in the beginning, this motor did not start out as a maximum effort, all-out dyno experiment, but rather a mild, low RPM 300 H.P. street motor. If it had started out as a race or maximum effort deal, some of the details would undoubtedly be different and, I can assure you, it would have made a lot more horsepower. But it still survived nearly 10 dyno pulls, several up to 6300 RPM, and produced a very broad and street friendly powerband. We put a lot of thought and effort into it and the results speak for themselves. Also, the headers we used were in fact street rod headers that were already built, with too big and too short primary tubes and too large of a collector, but it was the best we could do within the time constraints of the magazine. With the proper headers we think it would have made 400 HP and possible a little more.
    Many members who have contributed to this thread have been supportive of us and we very much appreciate it. We believe that a number of members are not happy with the direction this thread took and also wonder, as we do, why the one person who created the most controversy and escalated it to the point of absurdity was not curtailed for the good of the majority. We have some ideas about this, but we will let you can draw you own conclusions.
    We would like to continue posting on this site and may do so in time. If you call Joe Shermans to speak with me and receive a recording, please leave you name and contact info and I will respond as soon as possible.
    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p> </o:p>
    David Nelson
    <o:p> </o:p>
    .
     
  5. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 27 years of racing the same 355 Buick motor

    I thought this was a great build with some kick butt HP. You made as much as mine did (355 Buick) when I had it done 17 years ago. I had 395 hp at 5900-6200 370 TQ at 4000 rpm I had used a TA 510 cam roller rockers TA intake MSD ignition. My heads flowed at 235 and 176. This motor still runs today. I have tried nitrous and got a 11.81et out of it with the smaller cam. I never tried nitrous with the TA 510 cam so I do not know how that would have ran.

    I hope that at sometime in the future you guys try a 350 motor. I am interested in trying a 108 lobe center cam but I do not know how it would react. the TA 510 cam had 255-265@.50 and had 565 lift. I have a smaller cam in now but I can tell it gives up before 6 grand. I think my problem with the TA cam was that I had used a 3500 stall convertor and I really needed a 4000 stall convertor. I run 373 gears but I think maybe 410 gears would have been better with the 510 cam. It seems I need a cam in between the two I used. The cam I use now is a Lunati 502-507 lift and 230-245@.50 116 lobe center.
    Can you make any suggestions on this.

    It is too bad this thing got way out of control as I thought it was a great read in the magazine. Just anyone doing a Buick motor in a mag is great to read. I am looking for the all out effort on a 350 motor. Maybe with a nice roller cam and all out heads.

    Too bad this happened to you guys but I do see a lot of bickering going on here all the time.

    Keep talking to us I love to read about new things happening.

    Later,
    Have Fun,
    Guy
    :3gears: :3gears: :3gears: :3gears: :3gears: :3gears: :3gears:
     
  6. exfarmer

    exfarmer Well-Known Member

    Welcome back Dave! I don't know about any "conspirisy" going on. Eric is just on of those guy that if you disagree with any of his ideas he takes it as a "personal attack" on him and gets all bent out of shape. Please just ignore his tirades because the rest of us welcome your contributions.
     
  7. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    I have provided a TA roller cam kit to a Buick 350 racer that will show how the roller cam is superior in all rpms vs a flat t. cam. Stay tuned.
     
  8. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 27 years of racing the same 355 Buick motor

    Sweet. Rock on, someone has to do this.
     
  9. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Yeah, sure I have spent WAY to much money on Buick 350 projects but someone has to as you say. There are a few surprise projects that will be featured in my up-coming book BTW. :3gears:
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2011
  10. 64G-lark

    64G-lark Well-Known Member

    Hi Dave. Glad to see they didnt run you off. You guys did a great build and I think the majority of us would be glad to hear more on any Buick builds or related projects. Keep us informed. Sorry you got such a hard time on here.
     
  11. ianmont

    ianmont Member

    I can't wait to see this article since my 300 just threw a rod through the block.

    Anyone have a spare 300 block they want to get rid of?!

    Ian
     
  12. Aaron65

    Aaron65 Well-Known Member

    I was just thrilled to see a 300" Buick buildup in a mainstream magazine! Thanks!
     
  13. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 27 years of racing the same 355 Buick motor

    Anybody know anything on how this engine is running today? This was a nice set up.
     
  14. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Good question! I think one of us needs to contact the builder and ask him how it turned out. He listed his info and envited any phone conversations so I should call him. :beers2:
     
  15. 64G-lark

    64G-lark Well-Known Member

    I would be interested to hear as well. Let us know if you talk with him Sean. I hate that he got such a rough time in this thread. He would have made a good asset to the SBB community.
     
  16. bob k. mando

    bob k. mando Guest

    Too bad this happened to you guys but I do see a lot of bickering going on here all the time.


    how odd. six months without me and yet no lack of bickering. *snort*


    some moderators might want to take note:
    it IS possible to post verbal/text warnings to offensive posters without going straight to the nuke button.

    it is also instructive to both the offender AND the rest of the community at large if the offending commentary is left intact and pointed out. even if the poster is banned / temp-banned.

    obviously, gratuitous cursing and porn/spam links should be deleted immediately.

    but deleting entire comments and threads and banning posters with NO NOTICE to anyone else about what is going on only smacks of coverup and induces confusion.



    Eric's participation here would have been the perfect place to observe these general principles. if someone with "authoritay" had stepped in early on to tell him to cool his jets he could have participated with his parts recommendations and been a very productive member of the community. as it is, he's been allowed to create a very antagonistic atmosphere towards people who have done more to publicize the Buick 300 than probably anyone else in the last ~30 years.




    if Dave had only treated my original two posts here with just a little more respect


    exsqueeze me?

    they were being bombarded with questions from all sides. you have no particular right to an expectation that they respond to you specifically.

    for all i know, you might be Smokey Yunick reincarnated ( yes, i'm aware that you say you were racing in the 70s which would mean that you were reincarnated before you were dead creating a time paradox which would .... errr, where was i? ). that doesn't mean that's its not offensive when you start jumping up and down screaming for attention, Smokey.

    if you have some specific question which is not being responded too, try pm'ing the person in question. sometimes they have very good reasons for not putting certain things out in the public domain but they're still willing to communicate on a semi-private basis ( that is, having an expectation that you WON'T copy/paste private communications to the board at large ). sometimes they're not willing to discuss it at all. that's their decision to make. you may not like it all that much but you should still respect it.

    there was certain information on the 1000hp 350 that was like this.

    there was a LOT more about the infamous Bulldog blocks ... :spank:




    Dave was on here to plug his site.


    dude, seriously?

    this board is run by Jim Weise, a noted Buick builder and restorer in Minnesota. check out http://www.trishieldperformance.com/ <<< ( Holy crap, Jim. what'd you do to all the info, build and FAQ pages? :ball: )

    you going to throw him under the bus too because he's "here to sell services and products"?

    the fact is that there are a LOT of the nationally and regionally known Buick builders, fabricators and producers who visit this board. many of them are regulars. they are ALMOST without exception valued and valuable members of the board. the 'exceptions' normally don't last that long.

    your argument is without merit and i award you no points. may God have mercy on your soul.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0#t=21s


    the simple fact is that if you'd just calm down and offer a sincere apology ( instead of finding excuses to continue pointing fingers at others ) people would feel a lot better about you.





    We are considering a separate web sit for Buick/ Rover engines and performanc parts and will likely have it up soon.


    this i would like to see. any progress on this front, Dave?



    and the unique U shape dish ( shallow on the quench side, deep on the spark plug side) of the Olds piston worked excellent with the 300/340 combution chamber, as witnessed by the fact that the engine made best power with only 30 degrees to total timing.

    this is also very interesting to me as it appears that you're stumbling into the "Soft Head" territory pioneered by Endyn and competition proven by Bill Elliott:
    http://www.theoldone.com/articles/The_Soft_Head_1999/

    of course, the flat exhaust angle doesn't conform exactly to Widmer's concept but he does talk about shaping the top of the piston to simulate the effects of a good 'Soft Head' design in older 2v heads:
    [​IMG]



    "depicts a typical 2 valve cylinder / combustion chamber lay out. This side sectional illustration shows the plug bias to the exhaust side with a large intake side quench pad and a small one on the exhaust side. The piston dome is a multilevel configuration."

    that alone would be a serious inducement to me to run the Olds pistons.
     
  17. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    Interesting stuff Bob. If I knew of an outfit like that near Cincy or in W.Va I'd have to try to get a job there!

    JB

    PS: Cool yer jets. If we're your friends we know. If we're not, we probably don't matter. ;-) :laugh: :grin: Wouldn't want you getting banned again now, would we?

    Anyway thanks a bunch for posting that link. If we don't move forward we're destined to sink in the sand. I like the fact that Larry has been able to take a new way of seeing something and build a thriving business around it. Thank God a few brave souls are able to pull that one off! It doesn't happen around here anywhere near often enough.
     
  18. bob k. mando

    bob k. mando Guest

    PS: Cool yer jets. If we're your friends we know. If we're not, we probably don't matter. ;-) :laugh: :grin: Wouldn't want you getting banned again now, would we?



    not trying to get banned, just pointing out that there are elementary responsibilities of Moderating that are not being handled here. given that they obviously don't have a problem wielding the Ban-Hammer they might want to expand their toolbox a little bit.


    anywho, i should also probably point out that if people are having a problem with a specific poster's behavior they should probably tag that "Report Post" button in the upper right of each post.

    it's quite possible that the Mods weren't really aware of what was going on since the Small Block fora tends to be a little insular. i'm not going to go back through the thread to verify that mods weren't posting in it.
     
  19. urbancowboy0307

    urbancowboy0307 Silver Level contributor

    I remember reading that Chrysler 318 article. I think they basically wanted to make a 300HP+ engine out of junkyard parts.

    I enjoy seeing articles on odd or under utilized engines (especially when I have one!)
     
  20. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    Insular. I like that. It's a neat word. Probably applies pretty well too. Heck it probably applies pretty well to me. Insular. Yep, I'd say so.

    Hey, I think one of the coolest parts of Larry's write-up was where he was talking about using the flow characteristics of the port at different speeds to change the effective port area and coutour. Almost exactly like a whitewater river changes eddies and current paths at different flow levels. Except of course that water isn't compressible. Wonder if he's been thinking about how the flow spirals as it goes down the intake runner? Bet he has. Now if you were to take some colored microspheres in different shades and introduce them into the airstream I'd bet you could video the changes and see where the fuel droplets want to go. I'd love to see that video. In fact it'd probably be worth casting up a clear port duplicate just to see it.

    JB
     

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