If it wasn't clear, Karl and Dave I think you guys have done a fantastic job. Building a stroker is hard enough. A one off stroker even harder, but then to have a magazine getting involved in the build is just more than the average builder can take, or for that matter the average owner. The demands and loss of control are things that the typical owner or reader never even imagines and is guaranteed to push the build way beyond any of the original intentions. That's not even considering the deadlines, and forcing the build to follow the money instead of following the owner's wishes. Few of the members of this board have ever been in any situation even remotely resembling what you guys had to deal with, and as a result few can really sympathize and understand exactly how much effort of how many different varieties were required to succeed in doing this. My hat's off to you. Not just for building a great engine, which you did. But mostly for the conditions under which you built that engine. It was a great accomplishment and should engender respect from every single member of this board no matter at what level they may be. Please understand though, we are still looking for that "perfect" combination of parts, and to most of us, we aren't there yet. JB
I agree! You guys have done well and although I love to toss around ideas I think that the way you did your engine is GREAT!:3gears:
". n00b is forum slang for newbie or new guy, it is used to describe a new member that joins up argues alot without knowing the tone of the forum and dissapears in a couple days/weeks.[/QUOTE]" OK, but what does "damn'd skippy mean"?:laugh: :laugh:
Your "comments" are offensive, out of line, uncalled for, unwarranted, and inaccurate. I may be new here but I ain't new to cars, I've been building and racing them since the 70s. (Back then our track was OCIR.) I also know enough to know that Buicks did in fact get a slipper skirt piston in the later years, a piston that Dave apparently didn't even know existed. I would think that there would be some appreciation for catching the inaccuracy rather than all of us continuing on in ignorance. Then we all discovered here together that as it turns out that very same overlooked 3800 SC piston would have been a better foundation on which to build this 300 based stroker because it's lighter, doesn't require any clearancing on it's skirt area, doesn't require any ring spacers, and allows us to run the longer 340/350 rods. There is absolutely nothing wrong with looking at all the options and alternatives! That information belongs in this thread. Because I dared to speak-up I'm now grilled by you. If I was only out to badmouth Dave's engine I would have commented on how funny it was that they used those totally optimized for the dyno headers that would never fit any kind of real car or I would have brought up the dyno cheating tricks like the huge 2" carb spacer which, again, might not be the best fit in a stock hooded car and it very well could make for some funky drivability and tuning issues, the absolutely enormously long duration of that cam, and the electrically driven water pump which also won't be there on the engine when it is installed in the car. I would have also pointed out that if Dave was truly interested in advancing the hobby and the interests of folks here who want to duplicate his build and not just the interests of his pocketbook, he would post more pics of the head work and some pics of the intake manifold work. But no, I didn't say any of that. I just kept it to myself cause I didn't want to ruffle feathers. All I did was point out an inaccuracy and an alternative rod/piston combo to use and I STILL ruffle feathers? You kidding me?!? You don't need to worry too much about Dave getting scared away. You can be sure he is gonna stick around. He wants to make some money selling engines to folks like you who can't think for themselves. He's already plugged his site here now several times. Well, I'm not gonna worship at the altar of Dave so stop wasting your time bad mouthing me and let's stick to the topic. I sat out the last few days after my last post where I invited you to get this thread back on topic. Two/three days later you are still talking about me instead. Enough already! You are not gonna change my way of thinking, stop wasting everybody's time. Stick to the subject at hand and stop obsessing about me. I'm not gonna start a new thread on alternative 300 builds either as it has turned out I don't even have one! (I might get one though. It all depends on which combo works out best. If I do go the 300 block based route I'll start a thread on it!) I would think that free thinking and the free exchange of ideas would be encouraged. Isn't that what an internet forum is for? To look at ALL the information and options and then choose one for one's self? Focus on the engines dude, not me and keep your opions about me to yourself because I will NOT sit idly by and let you badmouth me! I will respond in kind which of course takes the thread further off track and off topic which is something nobody here wants to see or cares about. So again, stay on topic! I wanna talk about girdles! I did a thread search but only came up with big block stuff. When I broaden the search to "posts", I get way to many threads that are not even related. With even the N.A. 3800s getting cross bolted mains years ago I have come to the conclusion that bottom end rigidity is of greater importance than what was formally believed. Just about every modern "V" type engine these days has either a bed plate, girdle, or cross bolted mains. Even the most mundane, pedestrian ones. I have a silly question: Is the main cap bolt spacing different between the 300 and 340/350? One would think so because of the 1/2" difference in bearing diameter but I have to ask anyways because I've seen weird stuff in my time. Like on AMCs for example. The 199/232/4.0/258 I6s with their 2.5" mains have the same main bolt spacing as the 290/304/343/360/390/401 V8s do despite the V8 being a 2 year newer engine design with completely different architecture (like larger bore centers), and it having a larger 2.75" main diameter. So I'm thinking if the 300's main bolt spacing is the same as the 340/350, that would make Jim's girdle a bolt-in for a 300 based build! Regards, Eric
Sounds to me that you probably do know what you are talking about. You are right that we need to look at different alternatives that could have been done to the engine. I think that since you are new here and had some different ideas about the motor some people just freaked out on your ideas. Plus you did attack back on some of the posts that were made here. But that is just the nature of us dumb human beings. I do know how you feel though. I have made comments on some posts about some things that I thought were not appropriate to SHOW and when I said I did not like it I got attacked on it. (political) I got so discouraged about it that I just started to wipe out my posts. Some people just want to get on here and bash anything that is new and useful to the hobby. We get attacked for someone trying to say that points are better than electronic ignition, or that the stock intake is better than the TA intake, or that their is no proof that ZDDP or the Joe Gibbs racing oil does anything and is just a advertising gimmic. This crap happens all the time and it just gets tiring to hear. I have been stranded at the track because the coil went out connected to the MSD system and distributor that I have but did I go back to the old system because it failed on me. No, I just went and got a new part and put it on because I know the part is just way better than the old school system. I have a Mallory 140 electric fuel pump I put on about 5 years ago with new lines and a gas tank. I am not going to can the whole system call it junk and put my old mechanical fuel pump on because the fuel pump quit working on me. No, I am going to figure it out and fix the system. With me trying to run nitrous I want to have that electric fuel pump on there. So, I do feel what you are saying here and I say just chill out and make the post you feel is that is going to make things better for the hobby we have. Damn, it is hard enough trying to figure out what is right and I think we need all the information we can get here no matter what the problem is. There is a ton of info on here and there are some great people on here that have some different and great ideas on building a Buick motor and I just think it just gets way out of hand with the comments here. I personally want to learn from the Darryls and the the gsjohnnys here but I think they have gotten frustrated with what has happened to the site. I want them to come back here and talk about what they went thru with their engines so I can learn from them. Learning is good. So, keep on talking about the 300 motor and maybe the next person that builds one will use all the info here and build a better one. :beer Keep on typing. Later, Guy
If you start a new thread about your build ideas I will check out the template I got from JB and let you know if the 340 design would fit a 300. :3gears:
Yeah, I'm clueless on that. A quick visual check with the caps pulled would tell. As far as the search for girdle info, go to search then "advanced" and select the small block forum to narrow down your results. I didn't see the thread and I don't remember the title so you may have to do some reading to find it. but these guys do a lot of cross linking which is really helpful in finding relevant information. I don't have any idea who started that trend but I'm constantly grateful that they did. JB Incidentally, WV anarchist, seems a little like the pot calling the kettle black if you know what I mean. Lighten up.
So how exactly dos my political and regional afiliation enter into it? So...''wah wah wah, my theoretical engine is so much better than your real one because mine would have magic fairy dust in it, and Im so great because I say so'' is a valid argument around here now..... Jeez, I see now why so many others have left. The sad part is you guys are right, a long rod, forged piston stroker with a girdle would probibly be a better engine. SO WHAT!!! So that means you can go around being smug and self rightious about other peoples projects because if you ever built one like it you'd do it differentlyou: I now leave this thread to the trolls.................
No, I just meant you're a disruptive element. You're the one who put your regional and political status on display so you can't blame me for noticing it. Sort of highlights your attitude though. Not that I have anything against West Virginians since I am one, but I do have serious concerns about anarchy, as I have no desire to provide for my family at the barrel of a gun. But all this has no place here. JB
Madman, I thought you said you were finished with this thread. Yet here you are, still dragging this thread off topic. Do you actually have any useful information to share about building a stroker 300? Again, Dave wants to plug his site, and sell his engines. Anybody who has ulterior motives can and should be able to stand some scrutiny. Like I said, not all of us are monkey see, monkey do types. That kind of attitude is for Chevy people! I've been the first to admit the the SBB is a new animal for me, I've even gone so far as to admit that I didn't even know I actually have a 340! I've freely shared my ignorance with you all, I've hardly proclaimed myself to be a SBB expert. I've also repeatedly stated that there very well may be even better rod/piston combos out there than what I came up with. If some of you folks who are more learned than I am would put your minds to it, we would already know what they are! More than anything else, I'd like to think that I have shown you all that you can think for yourselves, and with the help of a competent machinist, you can build your engine your way, according to your specifications. Meanwhile, we all can share our ideas here as to what that "ideal" combo is! Fox's Den, thanks for the support! Sean, I'm not gonna start my own thread till I decide which block I'm gonna base my build on. If I can find an inexpensive yet strong rod that will work in the 340 and let me lose those awful pistons, I'll go with that. In the meantime, others here who want to build a 300 based engine can still benefit from the girdle info. Regards, Eric
Eric, Dave didnt start this thread, a board member did. he simply replied to answer some of the questions that everybody had about the combination as did the owner of said engine. give it a rest already. if you want to explore the options for building a 300 start your own thread. you are simply spinning your wheels in this one and it's geting annoying. :spank:
"Sounds to me that you probably do know what you are talking about. You are right that we need to look at different alternatives that could have been done to the engine. I think that since you are new here and had some different ideas about the motor some people just freaked out on your ideas." I think Eric does know what he's talking about and the more ideas the better. I don't think that it's because he's new or that he has different ideas that upset people, it is the fact that when people didn't automatically agree with him, he started to bash a very good build and insult the people that did it. "There is a ton of info on here and there are some great people on here that have some different and great ideas on building a Buick motor and I just think it just gets way out of hand with the comments here. I personally want to learn from the Darryls and the the gsjohnnys here but I think they have gotten frustrated with what has happened to the site. I want them to come back here and talk about what they went thru with their engines so I can learn from them. Learning is good." X2, I also hope Eric sticks around. Please just tone down the rhetoric.:beers2:
I think getting rid of the snow and having a couple of Beers will get everyone back in line again. We need some sun and warm weather to get us out of the house. :beer I hope the guy that got the engine built didn't get scared off by all of the insanity here. Haven't seen any posts from him in a while.
Stop with the snide remarks directed towards me and I will gladly give it a rest. I've already said that I'm not gonna start another 300 thread, I don't even have a 300 to build and that all options can and should be explored here to balance the one sided views of one person's self serving version. Dave didn't start this thread but the fact remains that he has repeatedly used this thread to plug his site and he has used this thread to let it be known that he wants to and will build engines for anyone that wants him to. (Except maybe me.) I would love to tone it down but that word "annoying", well, it annoyed me. As did this thing.:spank: Now back to the engines please. Is anybody here contemplating the use of the aluminum heads for these engines that I keep reading about? Are they going to be worth the cost? Also, I just picked up that Jefferson Bryant Buick V8 book at my local Barnes and Noble and his oil system mods to the SBB are more extensive than the ones done in the Hot Rod build. Since the SBB is a new animal to me, this is one area that I don't know much about. I do have much experience with AMC V8s and their oiling systems are surprisingly similar but they are also different just enough that I feel I need to trust the Buick experts when it comes to Buicks. Just how vital is it to do all those oil system mods that are in that book? The author makes it seem like it is an absolute necessity for even a mild street build. Is that Jefferson Bryant book spot on? Do the smaller main bearings of the 300 tax the oil system less compared to the 340/350 making fewer oil system mods necessary? This may be yet another factor that leans me back in the direction of the 300 block based engine and away from the 340 block I have now. What should anyone else here contemplating a 300 based stroker do? Regards, Eric
The oiling system mods are more of a requirement on the BBB, the SBB is not as bad. I have done many mild 350s without any oiling mods so I would not consider them a must unless you get up into the 400+ hp range... As long as you have goos oil pressure I would not worry about the mods on a stock "ish" build. By the way Jeferson's book does a very good job at explaining the oiling mods!:Smarty:
