Just ran into this, since I am contemplating a cam swap. Somebodys home brew program or something. http://tworock.com/mjd/buick/350/
Old stuff never finished it. Cam choice would need to refect on your actual compression ratio. Don't go by rated as it is not correct. Not really close . also needs to match trans/convertor and rear end gearing. Stay away from edekbrock carbs unless your good with internal recalibration of them. If you post your budget and what you have/plan to get suggestions for cams will be given. Head milling to get up near 9 to one will make a big difference on lower compression engine and most cams
Thanks I got a fun one for ya. 69 350 with 72 heads oiling thru the pushrods but running the 69 rockers. Stock cam currently, 4bbl Qjet built by cliff, 2.56 rear diff, stock converter, stage 1 intake, hooker headers, dual 2.5 unch with x pipe and flowmaster 40s. Stock internal everything else, so stock compression. From research I've read so far some of these mods only hurt the low end torque, sadly. Would love more torque at low end. Looking for highly streetable, maybe TA 212? Cam, lifters and timing set?
I estimate you have about 8.1 on your engine. The 212 is OK for that but I would shave .050-060 off heads and get TA .050 shorter pushrod. The 212 cam would be good there at almost 9 to 1. But the Crower level 3 would be good there also. Either cam will like a 3 series gear and 2000 stall.
Thanks. Forgot to add I have adjustable pushrods. Could you elaborate on the stall and gear? What is the stock stall and what would be the effect of leaving the 2.56 and stock stall.
Stock torque convertor slips so engine doesn't die in gear. At also allows slip to rev rpm to make more power to move car. A higher stall gives more slip to bring rpm up to a night HP or torque point for faster launch. And a 256 gear is for a stock can with very low torque point . if you bring that torque point up you will be lugging engine to move car and mpg suffers. Also if the engine can climb faster RpMs the car will move faster. If you ever drove a stick shift car it would kind of be the difference between taking off in first gear vs taking off in second or third.
I do understand that about rear diffs. But thanks for the good explanation. So because I cant afford a different rear end, it wouldnt help me to swap cams? So whats the best cam for low end power, the stock one? I was actually hoping for a cam that improves my power without headwork either. Am I just wishful thinking? My timing cover needs to come off for me to inspect why there was plastic gear pieces in my oil pan so I thought while its off I might as well take the intake off and swap cam and lifters with the new timing set. But sounds like a new rearend, converter and headwork is a lot bigger deal. THanks
If the engine has high mileage on it a stock cam replacement can make a difference if the old one is worn out. Gary Farmer I think he likes the Federal Mogul stock replacement cam if I remember correctly? If he sees this maybe he'll chime in? There are also aftermarket cams that claim more low end than a stock cam as well to make up for crappy factory compression. If it was me I would try to save up the $$ and do it right the first time by doing a rebuild even if you re-use the stock pistons you can have the block cleaned, honed and the deck machined to bring up compression.(much better than having the heads milled way the flock down IMO) This way you can dial in your compression where ever you want and get whatever cam you want to run, swap the converter while the engine is out and change the gear later or choose a cam that will do good with the gear and converter you have. If you plan on keeping the gear you have shoot for the higher side of compression ratio for the cam you go with to help with the low end, but keep in mind that will require premium fuel if you're alright with that? So I'm talking clean block, new freeze plugs, new cam bearings, hone bores, machine deck, polish crank, new main bearings, new rings, new cam/lifters, and a valve job for the heads. After the heads are cleaned maybe you can do some light porting before they do the valve job? While you're there ask how much to clean your other parts like intake manifold, oil pan, pistons and rod assemblies to possibly save you time and hassle of doing that. If your machine shop of choice has a jet parts washer that would make that work easy for them and shouldn't cost very much, would be worth it to at least ask for a quote. In the mean time just replace the timing set until you're ready? Not sure what your mechanical abilities are so until(if) you reply I'll stop here. GL Derek
How do I find one of these?: "aftermarket cams that claim more low end than a stock cam as well to make up for crappy factory compression." My abilities arent bad. I just havent had a cam, crank or timing chain out. The engine is fine except the timing gear so I was hoping to not even change the cam bearings. I prefer compression that allows 87 octane. Converters are what $800 bucks? I did think about swapping that. Anyone know what the stock stall is on a '72 TH350? The car was originally a 2bbl. This is why I ask about a cam that will work for my existing converter and rear diff (2.56), and preferably compression too.
If your motor is running fine and you found all the nylon in the pan, chances are it ate the timing gear at some point and all they did was pop the front cover off and change it - not pulling the pan and cleaning all the junk out. You may be good to go as-is but a gasket set and a few hours will let you see if its all ok
Comp cams 258, Crower level 1 and level 2, Isky 258 are just a few high torque cams for low compression engines. The trade off is the upper RPM is limited so you get a little more low end and less upper end with one of these cams. With a mild build you do NOT need to spend $800 for a torque converter!! You can get an 1,800 stal converter for $200 or less if you shop around. At your power level there is no need for an $800 converter, would be a huge waste of $$$. You could rebuild your engine for around that much. A stock replacement cam probably would make a difference if your old one is worn out. If the previous owner didn't use the correct oil when it changed in around 2002 that could of caused excessive cam wear? Higher compression with the stock cam would really wake it up, I think you can if I recall correctly have as much as 8.8:1 with the stock cam and still run 87? Someone that knows for sure feel free to chime in. Anyway if you have a low compression engine now rated at 8:1 its probably closer to 7:1 because of lower machining standards from back in the day. GL Derek
jegs and summit both have torque convertors for about 150 with free shipping . ebay has many rear 8.5 gears 3.73-3.42 around 50-80 bucks . even one one there right now a 3.08 . so its not as expensive as your thinking. your limiting your performance by using the old inefficient parts. mill or shave heads .060 with .050 shorter pushrods and the crower level 3 cam ,2000 stall and 3.08 gears ,recurve distibuter and rejet and replaced metering rods in carb and you will bump the power up around 300hp 400 lbs torque. you will be very impressed with combo. if you can do a lot of the work yourself or with friends then you can do this for $600-800.
I think the 3.08 should be fine or get a ring gear spacer. I have installed a 3.73 gear on a 2.73 Camaro carrier once. barely made pattern . carrier shims all on one side. not the best setup but at this power level you might get away with it.
Thanks for all the input so far. We are getting much more specific for me. Does TA have a good cam "kit" for low rpm torque. Or otherwise I can go Crower. I will not miss the high end loss one bit with my setup. *Right now I'm thinking: -New cam lifters and timing set, keep old cam bearings. Do I need to inspect them? -Probably rear diff and heads stay. -New converter, how do I choose a quality one? Is 2000 stall a good idea with my setup? Is a new converter just bolt on no other mods required elseware? This car is driven for fun, weekends, car shows, long haul cruises, drive ins, etc. It can get stuck in traffic which has never been a problem, will it be a problem with a higher stall converter? I hear they get hotter. No carb changes required fopr any of this? What rpm should all timing advance be in at?
Yes the convertor is a bolt in. Pull trans out . pull convertor Put new convertor in . spin several times . it should go in about 1 1/4-1 1/2 inch past bell housing face. That will seat it in oil pump. If you follow that rule it will not cause a problem . then not trans in and convertor. Then fill trans. No problem. No matter what cam even the stock cam would like more gear and higher compression. So you can't go wrong if you decided to change rear later . even to a 2.73. And shaving heads will make the cam seem more powerful.
Still hoping to get thoughts on these questions from the experience on this forum before buying parts (very soon). OK to keep old cam bearings if old cam was working fine? New converter, have specific recommendations aon a quality piece? Is 2000 stall a good choice with my setup? Cams, I'm tryign to decide between these unless someone here has a different suggestion: TA 212: VALVE LIFT STOCK 1.55 RATIO: IN: .455 EXH: .468 DURATION AT .050 IN: 210 EXH: 215, ADVERTISED IN: 260 EXH: 262 LOBE CENTER: 110 POWER RANGE: 1100-5500 http://taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_212-350 Crower level 2: ***says year 78-87? INT/EXH - Dur @ .050 Lift: 202/210 RR: 1.55/1.55 Gross Lift: .434/.436 LSA: 112 RPM: 1500 to 4000 Redline: 4500 http://www.crower.com/camshafts/buick/350/buick-350-compu-pro-hydraulic-cam-260-hdp.html Comp cams? This car is driven for fun, weekends, car shows, long haul cruises, drive ins, etc. It can get stuck in traffic which has never been a problem, will it be a problem with a higher stall converter? I hear they get hotter.
TA 212 won't give torque over stock cam, but will pick up some horsepower (15-20 in an iron engine) higher in the RPM powerband and raises entire powerband a few hundred RPM over Federal Mogul cam. Camshaft longevity: moderate. Crower level 2 lowers the powerband a few hundred RPM from the stock cam and will trade torque for horsepower (about 10-15 ft. lbs./hp). Camshaft longevity: moderate. Crower level 3 retains about the same powerband as the stock cam give or take 100 RPM or so, gives 5-10 ft. lbs. and 10-15 hp over stock cam in an iron engine. Camshaft longevity: moderate. Federal Mogul cam CS647 is the 'stock' cam used for these comparisons. Camshaft longevity: excellent. Note: All assertions are assumed to have comparatively matched dynamic compression ratios. Camshaft longevity ratings based on a scale ranging from: poor, fair, moderate, good, excellent. Poor= high lift, intense lobe profiles requiring high spring pressures. Don't expect it to last beyond 10k-15k miles. Fair= high lift, moderate lobe profile requiring fairly high spring pressures. Life expectancy ranging between 15k-25k is normal. Moderate= medium lift and moderate lobe profiles needing slightly higher than stock spring pressures to perform optimally, with a life expectancy around 50k give or take, based on spring pressures, rockers, valvetrain geometry, oil used, and maintenance frequency. Good= low lift and mild lobe profiles. Basically a custom version of a stock cam with a little more lift/duration added. Stock springs adequate. Should be good to 100k miles or more with good maintenance habits. Excellent= OEM and similar replacement camshafts, where longevity is taken very seriously. Low lifts, asymmetric lobe profiles, and near-perfect valvetrain geometry permit these camshafts to last longer than any other aftermarket cam while still maintaining good power and mileage. Life expectancy is 200k+ miles with good routine maintenance. Gary
When the Crower level 2 says "trade torque for horsepower", is it giving up torque or adding torque. I'd like to add it. Sounds like the 212 isnt for me if it wont give torque and raises the power band rpm, I'd like it lowered. I see Lunati makes cams for the 350 as well.. I'm ready to buy one if I can ever decide.
You would gain torque with the level 2 cam and loose higher RPM HP. If you really want low RPM torque see if you can find a discontinued Crower level 1 cam! That one makes power off of idle to around 4,000. Maybe call Crower and see if they'll grind one for you? Stock stall stock gears would be ok with this cam. GL Derek
