The Crower Cam level 3 cam will idle a lot smoother and may not need the mods to your carburetor. Paul
Too late! haha, already have Mark @quadrajet power building me one. Deal was done before i noticed the cam prob. At least I'll have a nice carb for yrs to come! From your recommendation earlier, I looked into that cam. Seems like it will do nice Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Please forgive if this was mentioned earlier, but are you installing using a degreeing wheel or using a standard timing gear for your alignment? The Crower cam will have 4* advance incorporated into the cam position, while the TA cams do not. This means your level 3 cam will have better street manners if you use the timing gear setting, along with a bit more torque than the 212, just not quite as much top end--but this shouldn't matter as much if you're not using headers or any port work done. Your cam specs could be off a bit if you don't use the degree wheel, but ask Crower how accurate their cam grinds typically are compared to the specs they advertise for it. Your stock compression should still keep things within a safe zone even with the 66* intake valve closing point vs the 70* straight up 212 has, but those specs have been known to be less than accurate. It also may be wise to invest into a booster plate and adjustable oil pressure regulator if you haven't already, so you can boost oil pressure during break-in. Remember to keep hot oil pressure between 10-15 PSI per 1,000 RPM after break-in. Might I also recommend getting the cam saver lifters while you're at it. They're available from Crower too. The way they work is simple: they have a small notch machined into the side of the lifter, which permits some of the oil to bleed down onto your lobes. This puts 20%-30% more oil to your lobe and lifter faces where it's needed most, at the cost of 1-2 PSI on your oil pressure, which is why you need the adjustable oil pressure regulator and booster plate. Which cam bearings are you using? Make sure they look good and are installed in the correct position and no holes are misaligned! This is imperative. As Jim suggests, spend some extra money and have the cam nitrided for maximum insurance against failure. Couple with the cam saver lifters, your cam should last a pretty long time after properly broken in. The TA-212-350 cam and Crower level 3 cams are mild enough that you shouldn't need to use stock springs for break-in as long as you're careful. Make sure everything's clean as a whistle, there's no marring on the inside of your lifter bores or the lifters themselves, make sure they spin freely and don't feel too snug in the bores before assembly. Keep a hawk eye on them when breaking in, varying your RPMs between 2000-3000 RPMs (I like to hang out at 2500, raising and lowering RPMs a few hundred every few minutes). Give it some juice every now and then, revving to 3000-3500 or so for just a second. Rev and let it fall, rev and fall. Never let RPMs fall below 2000. I'd say after 30 or so mins of this, you should be sailing on smooth seas from here on out cam wise. Gary
Gary Matt used a degree wheel and was able to get 2 degrees advanced using the 4 degree advance position on a 3 keyway crank gear. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...p-guidance-for-a-newbie&p=2556989#post2556989 Camsaver lifter flat. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39382077/Ford six/IMG_0101.JPG Paul
Whew, thats some good reading there Gary! Thanks. To touch on a few of those, I did degree the cam (first timer here with the help of these great people here) I only had a 3 keyway gear set and had to advance to the 4* mark to get it as close as I could. I was going to ask where this crower would like to be installed at as I planned to test myself and see how much I remembered and degree again. I also did order the cam saver lifters. Looked like something that could help. Thanks for the advice on the oil booster, I'll look into one. Is that a TA item? I was also going to use ND50wt this time to help, Jim suggested that. The cam bearings look good from what i can tell, except the front, has some small knicks in it near the front. And a fine line around the circumference of it which looks like it matches the groove on the cam itself. Cant feel it but can see it, so i wanted to try to replace the front bearing at least. The motor is probably going to come out anyways so i can pull the pan and clean it. Ive never delt with cam bearings, is it necessary and can it be done without tearing down the bottom end? Cause if I gotta have that done i might as well just start the process of saving up for a full rebuild. Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Paul beat me to it thats my cam degreeing professor right there haha. Basically walked me through it Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Paul: thanks! (Paul's a good man and can give you some expert advice on pretty much anything) You can swap out cam bearings without tearing down the entire engine, but the rear one will be a mofo if it's still in the car. Sounds like they're ok so I wouldn't worry about those right now. The oil booster plate and oil pressure regulator valve are both TA items. Good stuff and is cheap/easy insurance and a way to take control of your oil pressure. When you degree, just remember that the Crower cam has 4* advance offset into the end where the gear bolts. If you install the Crower cam at the 'straight up' (according to the gear) position, it will sit at 4* advance by default. Just adjust it how you want using this information. If you want 2* true advance on the cam, retard it 2* on the gear. Crower has their cam cards with information on it showing the default 4* advance. Simply retard it 2* from this with your wheel if you wish to have it there. Or to keep it all simple, forget the gear setting and just use the wheel and let the gear end up where it ends up. It should show a 4* offset from where your wheel shows though. Crower recommends the default 4* advance, but 2* advance would be good too. Steve Caruso degrees his to 2* true retard for his combination (6* retard from the default), and he says it works great there with the head work he has done. What sort of gearing do you have in your car? This could be a deciding factor in where you wish to put your cam. Don't just listen to me, take everyone's advice into consideration. I'm sure we can all agree on a best setting for it. Gary
Oh Believe me, i am! Everyone and i mean it, everyone, that has took the time to reply has helped me tremendously. I never thought I would be doing what im doing right now just a few months back lol. Much appreciated The gearing is still stock 2.56 in a 72 rear i swapped out last yr. I have 3.08s and 3.42s on the shelf I planned on using after this. Just not sure which one, 3.42s i think. If all goes well thats next, along with my 9.5" stall converter from Jim Weise here. Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
If you were planning on keeping those 2.56 gears and stock converter, I'd recommend the default 4* advance on the level 3 cam; since you plan on changing to performance gearing and a higher stall, I'd highly recommend retarding it a bit from default. Somewhere around 0*/0* give or take should be fine. 3.42 gearing will be pretty peppy with this cam. This is what Steve uses in his car. 3.08's wouldn't be too bad either, especially if you plan on spending a lot of time in the car or on longer distance trips. If you want plenty of street play and tire-spinning fun, the 3.42's are your gears, especially with that converter. Just be safe. You have your little helper to think about too. The Crower level 3 cam and those gears with that converter should provide plenty of excitement. Other's will have advice too. Gary
Heres what the bearing looks like. It looks rougher than it feels, but i did notice a little pitted patch at the front lower 6 o'clock position. If you can see it. I dont know what is acceptable, look ok to use? Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Gary, matts engine has lower compression then Steves so standard straight up (built in 4 advance) would be the place to start. To get the dynamic up . Maybe even abit more. But that will bring down the rpm range abit.
Yes, mine is the stock 68 (originally 2bbl setup now 4bbl) which my book says only 9 to 1? Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Hmm. I'm not sure if it's the lighting or what, but it certainly appears to be considerably thinner on the bottom than on the sides (can't see the top). Check your other bearings to see if they look like this, but it may be a good idea to replace that one if nothing else. It could adversely affect oil pressure and/or oiling available for your cam. It may be a clue as to why you wiped a lobe. Insufficient data, though this is certainly a possibility. Buicks were notorious for burning up the front factory bearing and starving the driver's side lifters. Remember too that your cam drives everything up front: your oil pump, distributor, and fuel pump. Too much spring pressure on your oil pump can put excessive strain on the distributor gear, as that is what drives the distributor and oil pump. It can also put excessive strain on your front cam bearing. Replacing it with a grooved cam bearing from TA would be a good idea no matter what. Remember to use the stock spring on the oil pump and just use the adjustable regulator. Gary
Yeah when he said it had the 2.56 from the factory I figured it was the 2 barrel variant, since that's the gearing they chose for 2 barrel engines. The books say 9:1 but it's probably more like 8-8.25:1 True installing it advanced will give more DCR, but remember the Crower level 3 cam will have an earlier intake closing point vs the stock cam even sitting straight up. May be best to use either 4* or 2* advanced then. Also remember overlap will increase using this cam vs the stock cam, and with better gearing and a higher stall will raise RPMs faster increasing cylinder fill (particularly with some form of scavenging aid, such as headers), which will help offset the lower compression.
That cam bearing is alitte rough. The front one is most important too. As it delivers oil to the left bank of lifters and supports the distributer gear. Might be better to replace it . Being the front one should be adle to drive it in with something flat and a hammer. . A TA double groove would be good here. Also your compression I assume similar specs to my 71 engine which would give you about 8.25 assuming big valves and cleanup cut on head surface gave you a 56 cc chamber. . I personally would think about 8.75 would give you a decent dynamic compression and a strong power band. Which would be a 50 cc chamber. But one thing at a time . Let's get another opinion on the cam bearings . Let's see if you can get this back together with out a bunch of other work.
I have other stuff to do so I'll check back in later on. The more I look at that picture, the more I want to say that bearing is fubar. lol TA makes grooved cam bearings that are pretty much a must, even for bone stock rebuilds, much less one with tighter springs and more intense lobe profiles over the stock cam. Gary
Change that cam bearing. The front is the most important factor in determining your oil pressure. It controls the distribution thru the entire engine. If it bleeds off 10 PSI thats 10 PSI that does not get where it needs to be. Use ONLY the back grooved TA bearings installed as directed. IE don't let a Chevy mechanic install it. I use Valvoline VR1 racing oil 10w30. Use the small Purolater oil filter. The smaller filter fills faster and gets oil to the bearings quicker. As does the lighter oil. Also less wear on the timing chain and distributor gear. I use completely stock oil pump. I use the suggested Crower dual springs even during break in and have never damaged a cam.
Great points guys, I have a lot of info here to help. Monday im going to order that front Bearing along with an oil pump booster plate. Tomorrow I'll have a friend bring over a lift and stand, hopefully by next weekend I'll have the block pulled out, pan off, motor washed out best i can and that front bearing in. Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
An option once the engine is back together: Mark the pushrods with a vertical line via a sharpie. Remove the suspect valve cover and run engine only long enough to verify pushrods are spinning. it will make a mess. During assembly, can also manually rotate cam with lifter and pushrod in place, lighty retaining pushrod in place with a oiled handheld rocker arm to verify spinning
Thats a good idea thanks. Luckily it oils through the rocker shaft so it won't squirt all over with the cover off. I'd rather deal with an oil mess than deal with another problem like this Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
