I would tend to agree that an oe motor would lend itself more to the "pull the pan and clean it as best you can, and then give it another go" approach.. I was under the impression it was a fresh engine assembly, hence the comment "having to do it a third time". Also all the discussion about pre-lube is moot on your motor, but that was more for other folks reading this, than just you.. Being an old engine what was the oil pressure like during break-in? Low oil pressure is a common cause of new cam failure, in an old engine. JW
Here's my opinion- In 2005 I had a lifter collapse while in New Jersey 450 miles from my house in Massachusetts. The motor had less than 700 miles on it. So along with a bunch of Buick guys who were with me caravaning from Yardley's Spring Picnic we adjusted the TA adjustbale pushrod, and kept driving. I made it about 5 miles before the lifter pumped up and broke the adjuster off the top of the pushrod. Tom Telesco had a 3/8 Karmen Ghia clutch pushrod (15") in his trunk, which using a hacksaw, we cut down to 9.40ish and put the blunt end at the top against the rocker. I proceeded to drive all the way home at 75MPH on the highway and made it home. I cannot begin to tell you how much fine metal shavings were laying in the head. I had the same concerns as you and took the intake off, bought 10 gallons of kerosene, and dumped it in the lifter valley and through the affected head and through the oil drain until it ran through the pan clean. They I used light oil and ran the car for 15 minutes at a time changing RPM and did 3 or 4 oil changes this way. The motor stayed together for another 5 years and 100 1/4 mile passes, and around 10,000 street miles. Maybe I was lucky....
Nope, just the original motor, still running good. I just had heads rebuilt last year and wanted to throw in a cam while swpping the heads. And this is where its at now. Oil pressure was the same during and after breakin as it was prior to it. If i remember right it was about 15-20 at idle when hot. 25+ at cruise and would go up to 40 or so if i pushed it. rough numbers but close Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Wow. Great story, Pretty cool it worked out. I guess this is the type of luck im hoping for. At this point if it fails it seams worse case scenario is im out 265$ for a new cam/lifters and the motor is shot anyways. Ive enjoyed this car for 20yrs and if the motor decides its time is up so be it, move on move fwd and i learn to build my first motor. Bigger and better Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Well, worst case is you toast your #'s matching block .. a bigger concern than others being it's "just" a Skylark (no disrespect intended or implied. .)
At break in speed, (2000rpm) you need at least 30-40 psi. Oil spraying off the rods is the biggest contributor to camshaft lubrication. Try the regular BR next time, it's 50wt, and should give you some more pressure, with no negative effects with an older motor like yours, since it won't build too much pressure. Typically, fresh builds are in the 60 psi range during cam break-in. JW
Thanks Jim, I'll try the heavier wt. i dont recall if it was above 40 or not but it was definitely at least 30psi. The bottom end,has,about 150k on it so im sure its psi is on its way down. Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Curiosity is flowing so a friend of mine who is a service tech at dodge had his shop mngr call this machine shop he reccomends. Supposedly very good work. talked to the owner and gott a quote for some bottom end work for me... Doesnt include hanging pistons or polishing crank though. I have new forged 30 over pistons here i could use. What do you think about price? Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Sigh... Great advice from all helping. It is also advised to use stock springs to break in flat tappet cams, particularly those with intense profiles, then replace with the springs you intend to run it with. As was mentioned earlier, always check to make sure your lifters are spinning while breaking it in. It doesn't take long to wipe an aftermarket lobe with tight spring pressures. This is a HUGE issue with performance flat tappet cams, unless you're a professional who builds race engines for a living, and even then it's a gamble. The break-in process is to ensure the lifters seat properly onto the lobe faces, so they are 'mated' up properly for the duration of the camshaft's life. Spinning ensures this process goes as intended. As Jim mentioned, ANY debris or even some marring on surfaces, low oil pressure, etc. can prevent lifters from beginning their initial spin (or stop them once started). There has to be contact and some pressure (but not too much) on the lifters and lobe surfaces, otherwise could disrupt (or prevent) the lifters from spinning. Sometimes though, no matter what you do, there can be issues. Anything you can do to help prevent these issues is the best insurance against failure. Jim and Hugger (and other experienced builders) seem to have this all under control, so I'll just toss in my 2c. I have built less than 1,000 engines so my advice isn't as valuable. Sympathies for your loss and hassle. Gary
i am in no way an expert on anything but drinking beer ha , i offer my experience and knowledge that i have gained over the years as nothing more than trying to be helpful to my fellow buick brothers, i know just enough to get me and everyone else in trouble. i love talking cars and since all my car guys have went in different directions over the past few years i come here to be amongst my own kind ha. just wanted to clarify that there are droves of more seasoned guys on here that stay quiet and its them that i have bugged over the years learning what they are so gracious to pass along to me. as far as the price sheet it seems very fair, its like $250 for a bore and hone alone aroumd here , but if your entertaining the idea of a freshn up id alot at least $2500
Thank you Gary! Every one of you are a blessing. The help and advice is appreciated more than you know. Especially coming from a beginner like myself. Its teaching me as i go. And believe me I know im talking with some of the best of the best here, frankly kinda intimidating but awesome too haha. Im not sure which route i want to take yet as both sides are giving great advice. Money, time, abilities, as well as risks and luck play a huge factor here. I just hate to have to see my car down for the year. My 5yr,old absolutely loves this car. She even helped me sand it down before paint, and pull the cam and lifters out proud dad here... Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Looks like you have a great helper. I'm sorry for all your hardship with the Buick. I've had the same thing happen with me. It's definitely sickening. When I lost a cam on break in I lost 4 lobes. It was amazing how much metal that got threw the filter. And that was even with a filter magnet on it. It had even ruined my brand new timing chain cover. I had to do a full rebuild agian. The second time around I spent hours just making sure the lifters spun in there bores before I assembled her with the cam spinning by hand. I also had cut open some old valve covers. And painted lines on the pushrods. Just to make sure they were all spinning when I broke her in. I also had broke her in single valve springs. This time around everything went good. Wish ya luck. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks Dan, shes an awesome helper. She checks our cars oil and helps check tire press. Sure feels good to know even if she doesnt get into this hobby later that she will still have this knowledge in her if needed. Its unfortunate but at this point im looking fwd with the project. Luckily my timing cover looks good and the oil that pools around upper parts isnt as dirty as what sat in the pan. So im going to just clean the pan and everything else best i can and try again. If it fails so be it, the motor will need a rebuild anyways. Its nice that everyyhing is clean and new bolts installed from prior swap, made it 100 times easier to pull it apart the second time Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
I think i will try breaking it in with inner dampers removed on the stage1 springs this time just for added safety i guess. Also would like to install a new front cam bearing at least. Can anyone shed,any advice there? Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Don't worry about the inner dampers.. they provide almost no spring pressure. If you really worried about it, get ahold of an old stock set of valvesprings. I do believe I have an old set of 350 springs laying around that you can have for shipping cost. But really, I would not worry so much about it. Get the cam nitrided!!! JW
Jim thanks but i do have a set from the original heads that i removed. But like you said I shouldnt worry about it, i wont. I'll look into a place that can do that to the cam for sure! Im ordering a Crower cam, im not sure if that is something they can provide before sending it to me. I'll look into it Matt Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
TA212 and TA lifters. Cam sat around for some 8yrs i think. Lifters were purchased within the last year Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
I heard something like that. I decided on a Crower level3. Seemed pretty close to a 212 Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
