400 cooling and oil pressure issue

Fellas I do not claim to be a mechanic here. Some of the questions you may have to dumb it down or walk me through it. I asked jim a few years back if I got the car to him if he would fix the issues. He declined due to being a motor builder rather than taking on the car. He referred me to a guy he spoke highly of a bit from where I stayed. I drove my car down to his shop. I explained the issues I was having. He never got off his chair other than to show me some old dirt bike he was restoring. We set a date for me to drop my car off to have it worked on. I showed up. The guy told me it wasn’t a convenient time for him. So I drove my car all the way back. I called him after to re set another date to work on the car and after about 2 phone calls with him, he was a FLAKE.!

I have a Dewitt’s 2 row big 1.25 radiator more then I should need.

170 was a typo. It’s 180 for the thermostat. I’ll look through my paperwork

If anyone lives near the Milwaukee area I’m willing to pay shop time for the bugs to be worked out.
I do not want my car sitting outside
I do not want my car being a spectacle at the shop
I do not want to see you driving my car unless I am present.
Yes I have had a couple bad experiences with some shops.

 

See I can’t win LOL. Over 200 to some people is too hot others say not till 230. I just want it to run right at the correct temperature and drive my car. It’s sat for longer then I’d like to admit because of a couple bugs that I want to work out but I don’t want to have to be rebuilding a new motor EVER AGAIN. I still have the number motor.
Any way off topic. You guys let me know where to start.

 

Although there are many variables here, it is not rocket science.

Set the timing up correctly (this means both the initial idle vacuum disconnected, the vacuum, the springs and weights and the maximum).

Make sure you have properly mixed antifreeze (ie at least half water).

Make sure the coolant is flowing. (both hoses on radiator get hot) removing the thermostat as a test is easy too.

If the idle is falling very low at idle (with or without AC), this can cause temps to spike.

I think there are many members near Milwaukee.

The "I don't want you driving my car unless I am present" requirement would be a show stopper for me. It's NECESSSARY for whoever is troubleshooting this to be able to drive the car. That requirement isn't reasonable in my opinion.

With a 180 degree stat, the car should NOT go above 190 degrees. This assumes the stat is opening when it should and the gauge you are reading temp from are accurate.

That said 210 isn't "overheating".

 

Generalizing/broad brushing here...

180-210F is "normal range".

Running an engine "too cool" for short drives (less than 20 minutes steady highway/mid rpm) will result in oil contamination highly acidic and result in sludge and bearing erosion, corrosion and rapid rotting of exhaust.

"Too hot" is where the engine starts detonation and is typically above 220F, and on engines that have developed carbon build up and suffering boil over when and if the cooling system is sealed and full.

Engine damage due to oil breakdown from heat (especially non-synthetic is) where flash to vapor (oil at burning point) is when you start getting 230F and above.

A sound engine and properly functioning cooling system, your car can (and should) operate at 220-225F without fear of damage.

You and it might be "happier" at 190F all day long, everyday, hot or cold, wet or dry. But just like people being happier in 65-75F environment, we can run all day long from the 30s to near 100F if we are in good shape and properly maintained.

First is knowing what your car runs over 20 minutes operation at all ranges.
If you know those temps, that would be a good starting point to know if you actually have a problem, or are simply concerned because of what you perceive to be "too hot".


And nothing wrong with having history with shops/mechanics, and wanting specific treatment, but that's a whole nuther can of worms.

 

The "HOT" light on the dashboard may not come on until the coolant is above 240 degrees. Some of those switches don't close until they're above 255. Lots of newer vehicles don't turn on the second electric cooling fan until 220. It's not a matter of engine damage at 210.

However, if the thermostat is running wide-open at idle or cruise on these older vehicles, there's no additional cooling system capacity for higher-load conditions.

Therefore, "overheating" depends on the thermostat rating. A 180 stat shouldn't ever get hotter than 200 degrees at idle or cruise, because it's WFO, and has no more capacity to control the temperature. It has LOST CONTROL of the engine temp. 200+ at heavy throttle/high RPM may be totally normal, but the temp needs to come down quickly when the loud pedal is released. Ideally, the engine temp should be within a few degrees of the 'stat rating, at idle and cruise.

But you do bring up a valid point. We don't know that his temp gauge is accurate.

 

Larry if it’s the “guy” I’m referring to. He is a FLAKE. Jim recommended a guy on the southern part of Milwaukee county. I don’t live where I use to. In one of my previous posts I explained my experience with him.

 

I have no issue with the person working on my car is driving my car while I’m present. Again a bad experience. Nothing like doing a drop in at a shop that is supposed to be working on your car on the clock and you happen to see it parked at a restaurant with NOT JUST one person in it but others I have no idea who they are that are driving my car to go get lunch.

second situation car was getting redone. Owner of shop asks his girlfriend to grab some parts for another car while my car was parked inside the garage under a loft they built for extra storage. She knocked a box of bolts over my hood, and passenger door. I think you guys can feel the pain on that one.

 

https://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/anyone-in-the-waukesha-area-in-wi.387078/

 

Here is some paper work and notes I took during the build. I doubt there is more then 2,000 miles on it since I rebuilt it.
Looks like just TA standard water pump?
Nothing on the thermostat but it will run as cool as 160 on a nice cool day and it does not like hot days.
180 seems to stick in mind. Typically that is where i see it sit on a decent day.
I have good auto meter gauges.
The carb was rebuilt and jetted.

im going to get some pics of the fan, clutch, I’ll measure some things and take pics of the motor as well as belts.

 

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7 blade fane. The blades are pretty pitched. They’re about 6” long. My clutch ruff measurement was 7”. Proper spacing between the radiator and fan. The proper spacing between the fan and the radiator. Original fan shroud. I did not run it to see what the timing is but I’m pretty sure that it’s at six or 7° at idle. I don’t know if any of these pictures help at all.

 

Am I seeing this right? The tape measure is on or near the trailing edge of the fan blade? In this photo, that fan is WAY TOO DEEP into the fan shroud. You need a shorter fan clutch or a different shroud. The fan clutch is likely easier to change than the shroud. But some of your other photos seem to show the fan about 1/3 out of the shroud. Hard to tell for sure. Better photos?

The fan does not seem to have enough pitch or blade count to use with a "heavy duty" or "severe duty" clutch. Fan looks pretty ordinary to me.

 

Yup!
That depth spacing does not look right.
The fan blades should be about halfway in and halfway out of the shroud.
With the way yours looks air can't spill out the end of each blade, it just keeps getting dragged around inside the shroud which acts like a blockage.

 

What about the distance from the clutch thermo spring to the radiator, how close does it need to be for proper operation?

 

Not sure why that would matter. The thermo spring measures temperature, not distance.

 

No not really... in fact, after sending a well known member to another very well known guy for help, and this guy blowing him off and giving the job to one of his flunkies, who completely botched a simple deal and the motor had to be sent here for me to straighten it all out, I will NEVER recommend anyone again... Give you a few names, but nothing that resembles any kind of endorsement...

And no, I don't know of anyone in that area, beyond who I sent him to the first time, which I see was a mistake.. one I won't repeat.

AS to the the meat of the thread here, I would not worry about 210* on a hot day with the AC on at all... I would consider that normal for most cars, some will do better, but not many.

Go enjoy the car and stop worrying about it.

JW

 

Sorry Jim I didn’t not want to do any name dropping as why I left it as “the guy”. I did very much appreciate you trying to help and steer me in the right direction. I have absolutely no problem with you or was mad at you about the situation one bit. That was between me and him.