Jim, That's a good question to TA, I suspect since they list max lobe separations, they are rough ground,(heat treated). How much for a "completed" cam ? If one is building a serious sbb, I suggest buying "Mallory metal", reportedly $37. for 7/16" x 6", to internally balance your rotating assembly. A hi performance build, using an oem cast crank, has a tough life. It will live better/longer, with internal balance. Cheers, roverman.:Comp:
That could be your answerou: Paying up front, getting a vague at best delivery date, then having to call and hound them to do what theyve allready been paid to do... That could be a turnoffuzzled: I do want a set of these heads, but T/A is like pulling teeth to get info out of. Did any of you see a new product announcement on V8Buick? The T/A website make no mention what-so-ever of ''Rover heads''. Even their own catalog is thin on details... Do the heads take SBC rockers or not? What is the required bore size? What is the combustion chamber size? What is the out-of-the-box CFM? Is 1.94-1.60 the standard valve size or the max? This is just basic info that is normal to give out potential buyers.
Please re-read this thread. All but 2 of your questions, have been answered. Standard TA head, is made compatible with 3.70" bore. 2.02" intake will "fit" the valve centerline, but will need suitable seat/throat work, will be quite close to a 3.70" cylinder wall. I intend to use 3.905" tractor sleeves, so plenty of room. I "think" the standard TA chamber is approx 36-38 cc ? I shall check with a 2.02" valve. Onward, roverman.:TU:
Roverman Can you give us the lastest story on using SBF crank forgings for SBB use? Also can the 351 Windsor SBF forgings be used. Thanks Paul
Thats not the point. The point is that info that T/A should be advertising has to be found second hand on forumsou:
Unlike the TA BBB heads and the V6 heads, the TA SBB head is not engine size or application specific so a lot of those details you are looking for cannot be specified. When TA says they are machining the heads, they are just facing off the flat areas and drilling head bolt holes, pushrod holes ect. The heads are in a universal form. Then when you order a head, the valve spacing and installation, valve seats, port height and size, type of rocker arm, spring seat surface ect.. are finished. Example: Max valve size and spacing depends on the bore size of the engine it is going on. The boss that supports the rocker arms is blank and extends across the entire head. Valve spacing will determine where the holes need to be drilled either for rocker studs or shaft mounted style. Many people (like in our case) order a blank head and get it finished locally Paul
This is reportedly what "Wildcat Engineering" uses. I cannor recomend them. "Tom" at Scat wanted $1,700 for a sbf forging, crank. RPM sells good quality billet cranks, to fit sbf mod motor for $1,700 retail. I'm trying to get them interested, for Rover/sbb billets. I suggest a peep at "JE Developements" for intakes and stroker cranks available. 3.602" is currently listed for 860. sterling. Cheers, roverman.:idea2:
Art, Can you tell us the details on how the bare head is supplied? For instance is the combustion chamber finished? If so can you confirm how many cc's? Are valve seats in place? What length valves are required? Is it set up for shaft mount or pedestal rockers? I think this has been the issues for the ones that are interested. When you call you don't get answers. No one wants to put up a deposit unless you know what you are getting. I for one have asked very specific questions and don't get straight answers. I have also never had anyone tell me they can be customized to what I would like ( valve size, rocker design, chamber size, etc). So does anyone know what you get for the $2795.00 completed heads price they list? Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide. I have a great deal of respect for you, Dan, Jim and the others who provide the useful insight.
I "think" these heads will take Buick shaft mounts or sbc pedistal mounts. The installed spring heights, that TA mentions, I "believe" are with standard length sbc valves. Mine would have arrived, with all seats finish ground, but I requested intake seats be left out.,(using Nascar Ti valves). Chambers are "as cast", I still need to cc. Intake ports have "one pass cnc", machining to .25" deep, at port opening. If you don't like waiting for TA helds, I suspect their on-the-shelf, at TRS.Not likely anyone, will like their price. You can always buy "less" head, for equal or "more" $'s, at "Real Steel". They have even fewer answers, than TA. roverman.
Any more information provided in this thread http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?238816-TA-Rover-Buick-heads I think Mike doesn't get on here often enough to answer important questions. Sometimes it is hard to get the information you need.
Then why not say that? If they said... ''custom cc combustion chambers, your choice of SBC or Buick shaft mount rockers, custom valve spacing per app, and valve sizes avalible from A to Z'' in their catalog, then potential customers would know what they are looking at. As it stands, we get here-say and guesses Thats fine in pre-production, but we are talking about heads that are being sold right now. How many production heads are on the market that o No: is the official specs?
Maybe if someone was to call Mike a get his attention to this thread, he would be willing to answer all these questions and/or put additional info in the catalog. Paul
He's not always easy to get on the phone, but he knows what's going on for sure. I don't think the bare heads are very much different from the bare BBB heads in terms of what's needed to use them. But, OK, they're new and you guys are hesitant. Tell me though, has TA ever done you wrong? So why worry? You know you're gonna love 'em. Jim
>> You can veiw color pictures of the head/rockers at "Triumph Rover Spares". It appears the rest of the world, believe$ in the Rover V8, more than this forum does for sbb's. There are lots of heads, intakes and stroker cranks available now, but you have to look for them. :shock:
Mike was kind enough to spend the time to answer a lot of our questions. I will do my best to cover his conversation as accurately as I can. <o></o> TA rover heads on the 350: It has been Mike’s experience that a good ported 350 iron head has the ability to flow close to a moderately ported TA rover head. Also consider what it would take to come up with a good flowing intake manifold to fit the 350 block/rover head combination. Then there is the cam situation. TA can have a hybrid 350 cam core made that with accept the 215-340 lobe pattern, but it requires a minimum buy of 50. The 350 needs its own head. <o></o> Mike spent this afternoon with his pattern maker and was discussing the 350 SP1 type intake manifold and the 350 head. There is an immediate need for the single plane manifold so it would be best if the manifold became available before the head. It would be nice to have a Stage 2 350 head but because the BBB Stage 2 sales are low it is unlikely. The story is too often like this: The customer already has a set of headers that fit the stock head and doesn’t want to buy another set of headers if they buy the stage 2 head. It would have been better if that customer sold their stage 1 headers and got the headers that fit the Stage 2 head so they could support that product line that TA has so much money invested in. Here is a case where the reluctance to support a particular product has killed the chance to make another product available. <o></o> Mike talked about the past where he did polls and got all kinds of favorable response for a particular item. After spending time and money to get the part ready for production, in one case, he only received 2 deposits. Now understand that is world wide not just the USA. The only way for us to get a new part made is deposit, deposit, deposit. <o></o> So far January and February has been the worst sales months in a long time and Mike is still willing to continue investing in new product. Because he is the last one standing as far as a Buick specific aftermarket supplier, Mike feels a responsibility to the Buick community even though it is not the best decision from a business stand point. <o></o> As you noticed, roller cams are now available for the full line of Buick engines. The roller cam outperforms the flat tappet cam with a large margin and is one of the better power gains per dollar spent. Then add the fact that the 20 minute break-in procedure is eliminated along with cam lobe failure. A lobe failure is far more costly than the difference in price between a flat tappet cam and a roller cam. The Nail head group has figured it out with nail head roller cam sales surpassing SBB if not BBB also. We need to support new product when it becomes available to help TA recover investment in that product. I know this has been said before but it is becoming even more critical. The cost of Buick parts can be reduced once the initial investment is covered and we could then quit complaining about the high cost of building the Buick engine. Buying from a cheaper off shore supplier is not the solution and often times that part fails either form, fit or function anyway. <o></o> Mike was having difficulty finding a shop that would do the CNC work on the TA Rover head to his satisfaction. The big houses that handle large contracts, most of the time do not give the attention needed to projects like this. If I understood Mike correctly, he now has a machinist that understands automotive parts and will give the attention needed. <o></o> Most of this next batch of TA rover heads are already sold. <o></o> As I was on the phone with Mike I could feel his frustration and his concern for the future. <o></o> Paul <o></o> <o></o> <o></o>
I know it has been years in the making and many are skeptical but I really want to build an SBB and the only way I will go that path is through knowing there will be aftermarket support in the future. I am heavily leaning towards building a big block and have an SF code 455 sitting in my garage. The more I think about the pros and cons of big block vs small block the more I realize that in the end the return will be greatest from building a 350 if and only if there are parts out there to make it happen Sure, there is no replacement for displacement, but I am not looking for 600-700hp. I would like to build a 450hp motor without power adder or spending money on R&D. I just don't have the funds or the time to build an engine by trail and error. Without getting technical I feel that for me to build an all out 350 to make 450hp would be too much for what my situation is given current parts availability, why spend $3000 to port iron heads when for a BBB you can build heads out of the box that will flow better for just a little more. Now introduce heads and an intake to the market and the situation changes. You start off with a block that can take more abuse and spin faster than a bigblock (from what I have read and researched) and you can now justify investing big money in a top end. Although there are very few, there are examples of people who really know how to build an N/A 350 and once the aftermarket support is there, I hope to see SBB enthusiasts show full support in return. I am putting off building a motor this season. There is a lot I can do before I am ready for a new engine so I hope next year TA has word of what their intentions are for the 350. Official word would be nice, even if its a request for a minimum order and deposit for heads and/or intakes I would be glad to join in and throw down some cash to make this happen. Also I don't feel the Stage 2 BB head situation applies to SBB enthusiasts. There are far fewer who run headers compared to BBB guys and I don't think many will shy away from a stage 2 head since the cost of buying headers to replace manifolds would be the same no matter if it was stage 1 or 2 design. I think the issue is really who would make headers for a stage 2 head. TA performance would but then that is a greater investment that is ultimately tied to the sale of the heads.
